tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post2320739622868108186..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Jon Stewart on the South Carolina ShootingAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-64748564682259937452015-06-27T11:18:47.890+02:002015-06-27T11:18:47.890+02:00After all the things you have pointed out about th...After all the things you have pointed out about the US, you're proud??? How is that possible? Are you proud to be a Catholic too, or a supporter of the UN? Or is it just the US?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-54054837847635350882015-06-25T18:35:33.492+02:002015-06-25T18:35:33.492+02:00MikeB: “You've been beating this dead horse so...MikeB: “You've been beating this dead horse so much, that that one comment doesn't change the fact that your whole push has been that a gun would have saved her.”<br /><br />“One comment”, you say? I went back between this thread and the Carol Bowne thread and counted nine times where I phrased it as denying her best <b>chance</b> at protecting herself. <b>Nine</b>, Mike. And exactly zero comments where I issued some sort of guarantee that she would still be alive. Why on earth would I want to affix a standard of absolute certainty to something as vital as the right to defend oneself? I don’t do that. Even the slightest of advantages should not be denied to someone facing a lethal threat, let alone a self-defense tool as powerful as a handgun. You often bring up that guns can make things worse, but obviously in this situation it could not have turned out any worse for her. The gun could have only helped.<br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-47047425765493033532015-06-25T18:34:40.671+02:002015-06-25T18:34:40.671+02:00It most certainly is an illusion...And I am proud ...It most certainly is an illusion...And I am proud to be an AmericanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-81502623987170002982015-06-25T18:06:14.894+02:002015-06-25T18:06:14.894+02:00Even when?
Apparently they are not using those fa...Even when? <br />Apparently they are not using those factual cases to come up with a number, and no, someone does not have to die in a defensive gun use, to count. If the cops have these factual cases, then why use guesses, use the number of factual cases on the books. Refusing to use actual case numbers in favor of guessing estimates is deceptive, and I wonder why they do that. What are they hiding by choosing to use estimates over actual cases? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50228233074637430282015-06-25T07:17:42.636+02:002015-06-25T07:17:42.636+02:00"First off, we are talking about specific cas..."First off, we are talking about specific cases, which has nothing to do with statistical correlations and causations."<br /><br />The causation I'm talking about is that not having a gun resulted in her death. Did I really have to qualify that?<br /><br />You've been beating this dead horse so much, that that one comment doesn't change the fact that your whole push has been that a gun would have saved her. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-34254649806075589082015-06-25T05:02:01.516+02:002015-06-25T05:02:01.516+02:00Anonymous, so what to your mind is considered proo...Anonymous, so what to your mind is considered proof? Even when an official police report states that on officer or common citizen displayed a firearm or held a suspect at gun point until police arrive it typically doesn't go any further than that. By limiting yourself strictly to incidents in which the suspect is injured or killed you stack the deck in your own favor. And actually the ideals happen quite frequently. Far more often than the cases in which the attacker or suspect is injured or killed. And knowing the criminal element as I do I have little reason to believe that a gun law would stop them. I mean think about it logically, if a person has it in their mind to break the single greatest law we have, and wants to end another persons life do you really belive that telling them they can't have a certain tool will stop them.MikeZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08550698214789984502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-2204381233950553212015-06-24T18:33:18.888+02:002015-06-24T18:33:18.888+02:00As a cop you must know "ideals" rarely h...<i>As a cop you must know "ideals" rarely happen in real life and I won't accept those claims until they gather factual, case, proof.</i><br /><br />And yet I see little apparent reluctance on your part to accept claims that this or that "gun control" law would have prevented "gun violence."Kurt '45superman' Hofmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14091930034162667742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-17684110386044825762015-06-24T10:51:21.565+02:002015-06-24T10:51:21.565+02:00That's the failing of the pro gun argument on ...That's the failing of the pro gun argument on self defense; it's not stating actual cases, but that doesn't give them the right to claim estimates as the basis of proof of one of their beliefs. As a cop you must know "ideals" rarely happen in real life and I won't accept those claims until they gather factual, case, proof. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-75426143866314988812015-06-22T20:57:49.222+02:002015-06-22T20:57:49.222+02:00Anonymous, it's a good theory but as I said th...Anonymous, it's a good theory but as I said the ideal DGU doesn't result in any injury or any significant issue. From my personal experience as a cop I have had people I arrested acknowledge openly that they won't go after people who appear armed or appear to be able to handle themselves. And often, if drawing or displaying a firearm diffuses the situation it won't generate any meaningful statistic or paperwork. Hence the difficulty in tracking them. That's why you'll often see "studies" that only count DGUs in which the gun is fired and the attacker injured. I have personally drawn my duty firearm when needed and that act ended the situation. So the question is does that qualify as a DGU?MikeZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08550698214789984502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-20307595696063313532015-06-22T17:06:41.204+02:002015-06-22T17:06:41.204+02:00I wouldn't generalize it as Americans, Brits, ...I wouldn't generalize it as Americans, Brits, and Australians. We are talking about the behaviors of one-in-a-million nut jobs. We do know that there has been copycat behavior, though.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50242475395725676992015-06-22T17:02:56.162+02:002015-06-22T17:02:56.162+02:00First off, we are talking about specific cases, wh...First off, we are talking about specific cases, which has nothing to do with statistical correlations and causations. Second, if you go back and read what I said, you'll find you incorrectly inferred that I was guaranteeing her safety. Here's how I started it off:<br /><br />"I blame all of you who favor draconian gun laws that a woman in as much danger as she was couldn’t easily get a gun. Shame on you."<br /><br />Then when you claimed I was saying "for sure" she would be safe, I corrected you with this comment:<br /><br />"What I said was: she was in danger. She asked for a gun. She asked again. The State said no. She died without her best fighting chance. That's on you."<br /><br />It's less than honest of you to suggest I said otherwise, when it is so clear on this very thread.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-26882874272204525972015-06-22T16:58:47.830+02:002015-06-22T16:58:47.830+02:00MikeZ,
Then the police should have a definite numb...MikeZ,<br />Then the police should have a definite number of defensive gun uses, so it's a factual number not an opinion, or guess. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30808955820946109492015-06-22T08:03:17.770+02:002015-06-22T08:03:17.770+02:00You tell us what's the difference then. Ameri...You tell us what's the difference then. Americans are more violent that Brits and Australians? We're more crazy?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-53007290251851444552015-06-22T08:01:52.059+02:002015-06-22T08:01:52.059+02:00NJ was wrong to delay the issuance of her gun perm...NJ was wrong to delay the issuance of her gun permit the way they did. Bureaucracy or conspiracy? I don't know.<br /><br />" I expressly did not say "she would have lived". What I said was that she wanted to take her protection into her own hands with the best available tool."<br /><br />That's less than honest, TS. You went way over the line dividing correlation from causation, and you know it.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-26075447392363925512015-06-22T03:33:56.093+02:002015-06-22T03:33:56.093+02:00How about just as many HYPOTHETICALS as you use to...How about just as many HYPOTHETICALS as you use to bolster your personal agenda? Or are the concrete and definite when you use them?MikeZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08550698214789984502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-87806364669766569752015-06-21T18:00:00.181+02:002015-06-21T18:00:00.181+02:00You're welcome, Flying Junior, and thank you b...You're welcome, Flying Junior, and thank you back. <br /><br />It's tiring to constantly be accused of being heartless just because we reject the <b>hypothetical</b> suggestions that gun control would have prevented the tragedy. TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-89344394558078162102015-06-21T17:50:01.569+02:002015-06-21T17:50:01.569+02:00"I guess it's Obama's fault then.&quo..."I guess it's Obama's fault then."<br /><br />Nonsense, the law I speak of was part of the gun control act of 1968 so it was passed on LBJ's watch. Keep in mind that the ATF and the DOJ have a pretty poor record of prosecuting gun law violations, which has been the norm over several administrations. <br /> Don't try to make it into a poor picked on Obama thing. In this case, it does become his responsibility to prosecute since it would be ultimately decided by the DOJ. <br /> In this case though it sounds like he purchased the gun at a gun store and went through the requisite NICS check.<br /><br />"On Thursday, investigators did a trace of the handgun used in Wednesday's shooting and determined that it was a .45-caliber handgun Roof purchased from a Charleston gun store in April, two law enforcement officials told CNN's Perez and Bruer."<br /><br />http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-suspect/<br /><br /> In fact, once the father recognized his son on photos that was released, he called the police.<br /><br />"Roof's father and uncle contacted police after surveillance camera images of the suspect were made public, according to the arrest warrant. His father told authorities his son owned a .45-caliber handgun."ssgmarkcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480230040370709682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-65841992611841749332015-06-21T17:45:16.547+02:002015-06-21T17:45:16.547+02:00Mike, the Australians confiscated semi-automatics ...Mike, the Australians confiscated semi-automatics and pump actions. Why aren't there still mass shooting attempts with the guns they left? You guys say certain guns are more effective, but if the attempts aren't happening (but with lower body counts), then it's something else. Do you believe that semi-automatics brainwash people into going on shooting sprees? Is that what you think?TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-36556516877229324732015-06-21T17:39:41.590+02:002015-06-21T17:39:41.590+02:00You're speaking in hypotheticals too, Mike: &q...You're speaking in hypotheticals too, Mike: "this would not have happened if we had 'proper gun control'". We are going to have to use hypotheticals if we talk about annoying other than the facts of what happened. That said, I <b>haven't</b> been using hypotheticals in regards to Carol Bowne. I expressly did not say "she would have lived". What I said was that she wanted to take her protection into her own hands with the best available tool. The state said no. Now she's dead. I reject your suggestion that we must know with certainly an alternate outcome (and what a ridiculous suggestion it is). Guns are not a 100% guarantee of anything, but they are highly effective. That's why you hate them. You rail against how deadly these killing machines are, until we talk about their ability to stop an attacker, then you do a 180 and talk about how useless they are against a man with a knife, and how she would have shot herself with it long before being attacked. Anyone can see through that.<br /><br />Australia and the UK also don't have DGUs. How many Carol Bownes do they have when the whole country is worse than New Jersey?<br /><br />I still can't believe I can't even get a basic acknowledgement out of you that what the state did was wrong. She's <b>not</b> in you "famous 50%", Mike. You keep saying the good ones have "nothing to worry about". Well she rightfully had something to worry about.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-39512727885651404412015-06-21T17:03:39.591+02:002015-06-21T17:03:39.591+02:00The Australian comic, Jim Jeffries admitted maybe ...The Australian comic, Jim Jeffries admitted maybe the transition from ten mass shootings to none was just a coincidence. <br /><br />You guys are such self-centered and desperate fanatics you can't bring yourselves to admit the obvious truth. He made another good point: you guys just like guns, period. That's your only argument.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-52617364248892290192015-06-21T16:59:30.578+02:002015-06-21T16:59:30.578+02:00How many hypotheticals are you going to use to bol...How many hypotheticals are you going to use to bolster your personal agenda. Carol WOULD have been saved, Roof WOULD have gotten a gun anyway. <br /><br />How about this: Mass shootings don't happen in Australia and the UK, period. They happen frequently in the US, where we have losse to non-existent gun laws. That's on you. That's despicable. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-59885595913014560172015-06-21T16:55:28.740+02:002015-06-21T16:55:28.740+02:00I guess it's Obama's fault then.I guess it's Obama's fault then.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-1421752016418183262015-06-21T01:56:51.255+02:002015-06-21T01:56:51.255+02:00This is well and good. Thank you very much.This is well and good. Thank you very much.Flying Juniorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02098313953658606206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-8678104701606967912015-06-20T23:51:03.007+02:002015-06-20T23:51:03.007+02:00Here's part of the problem anonymous, the idea...Here's part of the problem anonymous, the ideal defensive gun use resukts in zero fatalities, zero injury and quick trip for the suspect in the back of a cruiser. And that's the nature of the overwhelming majority of uses. And Mike, we can just as easily say the lives that would supposedly be saved if you had the gun control you want. And we can just as easily say for all we know she may have held off her attacker and been alive today. And those who are supposedly alive because of gun control are just as hypothetical. And we can clearly see if situations like this, we can clearly see gun laws didn't achieve anything.MikeZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08550698214789984502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-53146409969027389102015-06-20T20:50:56.036+02:002015-06-20T20:50:56.036+02:00Mike, you are also going to have a hard time beati...Mike, you are also going to have a hard time beating the drum that we must disarm men in domestic violence situations when you are arguing how useless a gun in a woman's hands is against a man armed with a only knife. I'm sure you'll beat away anyway.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.com