tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post2329371509321198870..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Etiquette Question--Is it polite to carry a concealed firearm when you are a guest?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-64925860029230861472011-11-26T12:16:48.769+01:002011-11-26T12:16:48.769+01:00Thanks Kelly, I think you have the right reaction ...Thanks Kelly, I think you have the right reaction to this incident. But, are you sure he has a concealed carry permit? I thought 20-years-old was too young for such a thing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-22108329913433965242011-11-26T09:12:46.031+01:002011-11-26T09:12:46.031+01:00A guest of guests(the nephew of honored, repeated ...A guest of guests(the nephew of honored, repeated guests in our home for several years) was over for Thanksgiving dinner. The 20 year old is a law enforcement 'aficionado' who desires to enter the police academy.<br />During dinner and in a nonthreatening but unnecessary fashion, he pulled a tactical folding knife which was quickly returned to his pocket. I don't recall if he cut something with the knife, trimmed a hangnail at the table or field dressed a pecan.<br />After dinner, several of the younger guests adjourned to another location at which the nephew displayed his handgun, for which he has a concealed carry permit.<br /><br />I advised our friends that the nephew would not be welcome in our home in the future, whether he had the firearm on his person while in my home or not. I feel bad not for excluding the 20 year old from civil discourse that may originate in our home, but for preemptively advising friends and guests that their relative is unwelcome. As our invitation never specifically included the young man, I don't feel I've behaved as rudely as this incident might otherwise be interpreted.<br /><br />But no guns, no weapons in our home. Thanksgiving or not.Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-90024972970444358132011-08-16T18:42:36.136+02:002011-08-16T18:42:36.136+02:00A better link to the book Dog Gone mentions:
Massa...A better link to the book Dog Gone mentions:<br /><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=wiiUeexIMLIC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=Judith+Martin,+Miss+Manners,+firearms&source=bl&ots=rwrb7sJabl&sig=1t5-yKpTAh5Dq9dQVkRqvE705Ys&hl=en&ei=yiRKTvXNNqXksQLzxfyvCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCEQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow">Massad Ayoob's <i>The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery</i></a> page 178.Laci The Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138644349857941157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-22247726041080578492011-08-16T10:23:44.719+02:002011-08-16T10:23:44.719+02:00August 15, 2011 9:07 PM
FatWhiteMan said... [in...August 15, 2011 9:07 PM <br /> FatWhiteMan said... [in response to this]<br />"Bringing a concealed weapon into someone's house without their knowledge or permission is an offensive act."<br /><br /><b>Offensive to some maybe but not to others.</b><br /><br />It may not be offensive to FWM for a guest to come to his table and fart loudly and continuously either; or to tell sexually or racially offensive jokes; or to spill food and wine or become obnoxiously intoxicated. Or to engage in a food fight, or swear repeatedly and offensively; any number of other activities might be inoffensive or less offensive to FWM than they are to other people.<br /><br />That doesn't make them polite, courteous, or right (only, perhaps right wing nut).<br /><br />However, it is clearly social custom that bringing an uninvited firearm as an additional uinvited 'plus one' is NOT socially acceptable, and impolite in the wider world of polite society.dog gonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151618317070878675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-62068945985259884522011-08-16T10:12:34.759+02:002011-08-16T10:12:34.759+02:00Even gun loons know better than to do what this gu...Even gun loons know better than to do what this guest did:<br /><br />From the Gun Digest Book of Handgunnery, by Massad Ayoob,<br />http://books.google.com/books?id=wiiUeexIMLIC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=Judith+Martin,+Miss+Manners,+firearms&source=bl&ots=rwrb7sJabl&sig=1t5-yKpTAh5Dq9dQVkRqvE705Ys&hl=en&ei=yiRKTvXNNqXksQLzxfyvCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCEQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q&f=false<br /><br />"Dear Miss Manners:<br />My job requires me to carry a gun. Recently at a party, I sat down awkwardly on a couch and my gun fell to the floor in plain sight. Everyone stared and I was quite shaken. It was most embarrassing. What does one do in such a situation?<br />(signed Armed and Confused)<br />The firearm etiquette book then goes on to state that one should apologize, assure the other guests there was no danger, and LEAVE.<br /><br />While this is not the same thing as optional carrying a gun to a social event, it does suggest fairly clearly that whipping out a firearm, or accidental display of a firearm, is UNWELCOMED socially.<br /><br />Even among gun fans.dog gonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151618317070878675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-80174454747854967052011-08-16T09:59:20.024+02:002011-08-16T09:59:20.024+02:00It is doubly rude if you get there with a gun and ...It is doubly rude if you get there with a gun and only after pulling it out - with your finger on the trigger - then find that your host objects. The objection is to the gun at all, but even more so to the irresponsible manner in which it was presented by someone who knows the difference between safe gun handling and unsafe waving around.<br /><br />Hosts still have that perogative. This guy violated that perogative.dog gonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151618317070878675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-19666723482098301722011-08-16T09:56:32.460+02:002011-08-16T09:56:32.460+02:00Although FWM's description of how he'd act...Although FWM's description of how he'd act, depending on the sutuation, sounds good, I think I'm leaning towards Laci on this one. It's rude and aggressive to carry a gun into a home where it's not appreciated. Etiquette would require the gun owner to find out before entering.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-38469326296879805842011-08-15T23:57:37.916+02:002011-08-15T23:57:37.916+02:00So it sounds like a number of commenters here woul...So it sounds like a number of commenters here would treat the thing about being rude to a host the same way they'd treat a bad law--iow, they'd simply ignore it. That way if something unexpected occurs they can plead ignorance--not of the statute or the intent of their host but of the need to be polite in an armed society.<br /><br />I think a simple metal detector that is hooked up to a relay that will send 13Kv through the metal framed chair the guest is sitting ond would probably be a reasonable way to ensure that folks 'fess up if they're packin'.democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-89087653801372113282011-08-15T23:23:25.947+02:002011-08-15T23:23:25.947+02:00"And if someone does not want you bringing a ...<i>"And if someone does not want you bringing a gun onto their property, then that is their perogative--live with it.<br /><br />If they don't invite you back and tell you that was the reason--live with it."</i><br /><br />Agreed.FatWhiteManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946272184958991397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-24566680192944461152011-08-15T22:13:30.372+02:002011-08-15T22:13:30.372+02:00And if someone does not want you bringing a gun on...And if someone does not want you bringing a gun onto their property, then that is their perogative--live with it.<br /><br />If they don't invite you back and tell you that was the reason--live with it.Laci The Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138644349857941157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-91584246536713141482011-08-15T21:33:50.449+02:002011-08-15T21:33:50.449+02:00How do I know what this person's intention is?...<b>How do I know what this person's intention is?<br /><br />Likewise, I have the right to keep an armed person off my property unless they have my permission.<br /><br />It's rude to assume that someone will accept your firearms into their home.</b><br /><br />The world is not <a rel="nofollow">"The Minority Report"</a><br /><br />... that's the rub, you don't but for their actions if MR concealed carrier pulls out the gun and plugs you in the brain-case he has bad intent, if he never tells you that he is carrying and nothing happens, then oh well, he must be a good guy.You can tell by what he doesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-61297422355287057032011-08-15T21:17:10.904+02:002011-08-15T21:17:10.904+02:00"Bringing a concealed weapon into someone'...<i>"Bringing a concealed weapon into someone's house without their knowledge or permission is an offensive act."</i><br /><br />Offensive to some maybe but not to others.FatWhiteManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946272184958991397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30133546734270068082011-08-15T21:07:01.660+02:002011-08-15T21:07:01.660+02:00I appreciate the thoughtful answers, but I'm s...I appreciate the thoughtful answers, but I'm still wondering if there is a right to feel safe ("gunowners don't give a fuck about the rights of others"). I agree that you can ask anyone to leave your property, but the line of argument here seems to be that you're asking the person to leave because he's brandishing a firearm, and that makes you feel unsafe. <br /><br />But let's say he leaves, and goes across the street to his house where he has a rifle that could send a bullet through several layers of drywall and plywood and injure or kill you in your home in, say, an accidental discharge. Do you still feel unsafe? And how would you exercise your right to feel safe in this case?Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-72743134324755110742011-08-15T20:02:43.938+02:002011-08-15T20:02:43.938+02:00Laci and others - is it up to the invited guest to...Laci and others - is it up to the invited guest to ask if bringing a firearm or other concealed weapon is acceptable or should the host state their preference in the invitation?<br /><br />Also, is it just guns or any type of concealed weapon? For instance, if a lady carries mace with her in her purse, should she ask if it is ok to bring that into a house? A curious child could easily reach into her purse and acidentally spray it on themselves or someone else. What about a stun gun? Should those also be included?<br /><br />Do private property owners have the right to request law enforcement officers to not carry weapons on their property?Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-51798158562252613082011-08-15T19:42:30.286+02:002011-08-15T19:42:30.286+02:00FWM, as have some of the other commenters have mis...FWM, as have some of the other commenters have missed that one does not need to be against firearms to be offended by someone bringing a firearm into the house without permission.<br /><br />In fact, I find it rather amusing that a group of people who will use deadly force to protect their homes against intruders would have a problem with this question.<br /><br />Bringing a concealed weapon into someone's house without their knowledge or permission is an offensive act.<br /><br />How do I know what this person's intention is?<br /><br />Likewise, I have the right to keep an armed person off my property unless they have my permission.<br /><br />It's rude to assume that someone will accept your firearms into their home.Laci The Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138644349857941157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-74140526912724182642011-08-15T19:33:02.105+02:002011-08-15T19:33:02.105+02:00MikeB, it depends on the situation.
If I were in...MikeB, it depends on the situation. <br />If I were invited to a dinner party and I did not know the host's opinion on the matter, I probably would leave it in the vehicle for the evening.<br /><br />If I were spontaneously invited into a home while I happen to be carrying, I would not bring it up at all and would just continue to carry concealed. After all, either they know I have the gun and don't mind or it is concealed and they don't know.FatWhiteManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946272184958991397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-85296699087080123352011-08-15T17:42:58.243+02:002011-08-15T17:42:58.243+02:00FWM, Would you carry in the home of someone who do...FWM, Would you carry in the home of someone who doesn't suspect you're armed? Would you ask their permission first? Would you decline the invitation?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-11875532319321064272011-08-15T17:13:32.185+02:002011-08-15T17:13:32.185+02:00No, DogGone, you missed the point. I was not respo...No, DogGone, you missed the point. I was not responding to the etiquette of being armed in an anti's house. I comparing my home to MikeB's gun free zone home comment. Which is kind of why I included the part I was responding too in the comment. You know, like with this comment, I am responding to your comment and not to the etiquette of being armed in an anti's house.FatWhiteManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946272184958991397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-33011568820385189882011-08-15T15:36:37.593+02:002011-08-15T15:36:37.593+02:00FatWhiteMan said...
"We have not had one sing...FatWhiteMan said...<br />"We have not had one single mass shooting so far nor have we had any stupid gun owners drop their gun while dining."<br /><br />Just like at my house."<br /><br />It would be as rude of your guests FWM, to insist that you remove all firearms from your home before they arrive as it is to arrive at someone's home with a weapon without permission. It is a fundamental disrespect for the home owner to follow their conscience in what rules they follow under their own roof.<br /><br />You rather miss the point.dog gonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151618317070878675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-76019704064132601572011-08-15T14:22:05.163+02:002011-08-15T14:22:05.163+02:00"We have not had one single mass shooting so ...<i>"We have not had one single mass shooting so far nor have we had any stupid gun owners drop their gun while dining."</i><br /><br />Just like at my house.FatWhiteManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08946272184958991397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-4936396607422987482011-08-15T13:50:18.777+02:002011-08-15T13:50:18.777+02:00I received my first etiquette book for my 7th birt...I received my first etiquette book for my 7th birthday. This possible eventuality was not covered directly, but it is certainly NOT ever acceptable to behave in a manner that is objectionable to one's hosts. Weapons were in the past a ceremonial affair, and very highly regulated in terms of who, what and when were acceptable.<br /><br />Your guest was uncouth, and clearly does not know how to behave.<br /><br />The only exception to this that I can think of is some sort of shooting invitation, where a firearm of some kind is a requirement for the activity. And even then, one only brings them indoors by invitation.<br /><br />Was your guest brought up in a barn by any chance?<br /><br />I'm guessing any of the gunloonz advocating this practice wouldn't know a fish fork from their salad fork. While not something I use daily, I at least appreciate that I will be more comfortable in social settings where there is some sort of protocol than people like your guest.<br /><br />I'd suggest not inviting these people back to your home. <br /><br />They are insulting you with their behavior. Mob activity, riots, etc. are no excuse for someone who lives at a distance from any such activity to act in this manner.<br /><br />It is as rude as bringing your own food, for just yourselves to eat, to someone else's home. If you are not there to enjoy their hospitality as guests - why attend at all?dog gonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151618317070878675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-57846977804269518012011-08-15T13:29:51.464+02:002011-08-15T13:29:51.464+02:00yes, Tom, there is a right of a property owner to ...yes, Tom, there is a right of a property owner to bar people carrying guns from their property. Democommie is somewhat correct, but it is <b>THE PROPERTY OWNER'S RIGHT TO BAR FIREARMS FROM HIS PROPERTY</b> if "a man's home is his castle".<br /><br />The Bill of Rights only protects you against government actions, not private ones.<br /><br />You don't have "a right to keep and bear arms" on private property without permission of the owner.Laci The Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138644349857941157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-549787242181882002011-08-15T13:24:46.929+02:002011-08-15T13:24:46.929+02:00"Is there some sort of right to not be near g..."Is there some sort of right to not be near guns?<br /><br />Think, "Castle doctrine", one of teh gunzloonz favoritest laws.democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-88254403609312742472011-08-15T07:56:52.316+02:002011-08-15T07:56:52.316+02:00My home is a gun-free zone. We have not had one s...My home is a gun-free zone. We have not had one single mass shooting so far nor have we had any stupid gun owners drop their gun while dining.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-37283397741611979262011-08-15T05:18:37.133+02:002011-08-15T05:18:37.133+02:00Is there some sort of right to not be near guns? ...Is there some sort of right to not be near guns? And how far is "near"? And if the argument is that each of us has a right is to feel "safe", what about varying interpretations of risk and danger?Tomnoreply@blogger.com