tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post247643554313539354..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Pennsylvania 7-Year-old Shot and Killed by his DadAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-36776575292568407412012-12-14T16:03:17.983+01:002012-12-14T16:03:17.983+01:00Greggie, you ol' bullshitter you.
"Once ...Greggie, you ol' bullshitter you.<br /><br />"Once I've determined that they are factual and not some figment of John Lott's or some other NRAWhore's imagination, I'll either accept them or rebut them."<br /><br />Your first citation is to something by Agresti? You're fucking kidding, right? He's not an authority on anything but hoodwinkin' teh rubes (in this case, gunzloonz).<br /><br />I found this:<br /><br />"The new result comes from Gallup's Oct. 6-9 Crime poll, which also finds public support for personal gun rights at a high-water mark. Given this, the latest increase in self-reported gun ownership could reflect a change in Americans' comfort with publicly stating that they have a gun as much as it reflects a real uptick in gun ownership"<br /><br />from your second cited source, quite interesting.<br /><br />It appears that a number of people might have been uncomfortable about admitting to having teh gunz, so they simply lied about it--not a big surprise in itself. I mean I lie about all sorts of things, gunz just aren't one of them.<br /><br />This:<br /><br />"1. We don't know the percentage of Americans who live in a house with a gun<br /><br />We have to rely on polling data because there is no national database of who owns a gun. One poll is the the now biennial General Social Survey (GSS) conducted by the University of Chicago. These surveys are conducted face-to-face. We also traditional telephone polls conducted by ABC/Washington Post, CBS/New York Times, and Gallup. <br /><br />The GSS found in the 2000s that an average 35% of Americans lived in a house with a gun in it, but that average was 7 percentage points higher in 23 telephone polls over the same period. This may not seem like a large difference, but it is, considering that we are dealing with 10,000+ interviews in the GSS surveys and 20,000+ interviews in the traditional telephone surveys. Why the gap?<br /><br />The GSS gets about 70% of people to respond to its surveys, while traditional telephone poll response rates have fallen from about 30% in 2000 to about 10% today. Response rates for traditional telephone surveys tend to undercount blacks and Latinos. Africa -Americans and Latinos are also less likely than whites to own guns. Yet that may not have as much of an impact as you might think. We know that low response rates did not affect questions such as whether a person was a Democrat or a Republican."<br /><br />from your third "citation"? Not really a lot of certainty exhibited as to how many firearms owners there are. It also calls into question the accuracy/veracity of phone polling v face-face interviews (this is not at all surprising).<br /><br />So, regarding your contention about 300M gunz and 100M owners, the math is a bit mushy. <br /><br />Regardless the fact that you don't really provide a good citation (the three sources that you provide are not, afaia, peer reviewed journals or official government sources and their methodologies (excepting Gallups) are arcane, you didn't get to the meat of the "debate". Nice try, you don't get the Kewpie doll who looks like Annie Oakley, sorry.<br /><br />This, in case you've forgotten, is what you wrote:<br /><br />"Fact: Of the 300,000,000+ guns and 100,000,000 gun owners in this country, less than one tenth of one percent are involved in an injury or death in a year."<br /><br />There is nothing that I read in any of the "sources" you cite that verifies that "Fact". But, I'm sure that if it's there you'll be happy to cut and paste it and cite the applicable page in the document. Have a nice day.<br /><br /><br /><br />democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30524479517282297132012-12-13T23:00:05.104+01:002012-12-13T23:00:05.104+01:00Democommie, you're a true pain in the ass. Yo...Democommie, you're a true pain in the ass. You want sources for things that are well known. Fine:<br /><br />http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp<br /><br />http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/25/gun-ownership-us-data<br /><br />Those sources agree on around 80,000,000 gun owners, although I've seen others that put the number much higher. Certainly, gun sales are on the rise. They also agree that the number of guns is more than 300,000,000.<br /><br />What do you have? Typically, you come here cussing and whining, but you offer no useful information.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-62592919756784485482012-12-13T14:40:27.731+01:002012-12-13T14:40:27.731+01:00"Democommie, you talked to your dog, and he t..."Democommie, you talked to your dog, and he told you that you're not crazy? Nothing needs to be said here."<br /><br />You're correct, he's more sensible and WAY more honest than you are.<br /><br />So, you don't have any statistics to back up your bullshit. That is not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that your gunzloonznation palz back you up. If the stats are out there, find them, give them to mikeb302000 and he can e-mail the links to me. Once I've determined that they are factual and not some figment of John Lott's or some other NRAWhore's imagination, I'll either accept them or rebut them. IOW, if they're not from a reputable organization and don't have good methodology, they're not stats. <br /><br />I know that mikeb302000 uses some numbers, like the "10%", those are not statistics, they are estimates (and fall woefully short of the mark, as to how many firearms owners should not have firearms, imo). If those are the sorts of stats you have, anecdotal, apocryphal SWAG's they aren't useful to anyone except a person who already has the answer and will twist the facts to arrive at it. It's sorta like those YEC's, OEC's, anti-choice and racist folks. Pulling numbers outta your ass is a reptilican (and libertarian) art form.democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-7815016025676268302012-12-11T11:33:46.822+01:002012-12-11T11:33:46.822+01:00The absence of evidence is not evidence of abundan...The absence of evidence is not evidence of abundance.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-74976384084016141852012-12-11T11:32:37.745+01:002012-12-11T11:32:37.745+01:00Pay attention, Mikeb. You want to take away gun r...Pay attention, Mikeb. You want to take away gun rights from half of the current gun owners. You want restrictions that would make legal gun ownership for the remaining half so difficult that hardly anyone would pass. Carry would be all but impossible. There was nothing contradictory about my statement.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-22151243961537417602012-12-11T11:29:50.496+01:002012-12-11T11:29:50.496+01:00Did you miss the fact that gun control wasn't ...Did you miss the fact that gun control wasn't on the minds of most voters?Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-35022657457726906312012-12-11T09:32:54.099+01:002012-12-11T09:32:54.099+01:00Greg, did you miss the second presidential electio...Greg, did you miss the second presidential election in a row in which the NRA and other gun-rights groups spent fortunes and LOST?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-26851265343968848132012-12-11T09:31:26.454+01:002012-12-11T09:31:26.454+01:00Orlin, You're becoming a real drag with this t...Orlin, You're becoming a real drag with this thing. I don't write about the millions of hungry children in the world either. That doesn't mean I approve of that, nor does it make me inconsistent for writing about the child gun deaths.<br /><br />You don't get to call the issue on my blog. It happens to be gun control and gun rights. It isn't "innocent children being killed." If it were I'd be blogging about hunger or any number of other things.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-12384370460442934362012-12-11T09:27:29.339+01:002012-12-11T09:27:29.339+01:00Greg, you're frothing-at-the-mouth comment is ...Greg, you're frothing-at-the-mouth comment is so wild you're contradicting yourself. 50% is not "hardly anyone."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-75018787465772179782012-12-11T09:25:17.743+01:002012-12-11T09:25:17.743+01:00Baldr's right. It's in the news too often....Baldr's right. It's in the news too often. We all agree the news does not capture everything, therefore, there are many more incidents than your "less than 1%" nonsense allows.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-88410070321802996682012-12-11T02:41:19.810+01:002012-12-11T02:41:19.810+01:00Reports of carry license holders or of gun owners?...Reports of carry license holders or of gun owners? See, you don't need a carry license to have a gun in your home. The problem is that given how sloppy your side is with reporting on this subject, it's hard to tell what you mean.<br /><br />What I know is that carry license holders have a rate of committing crimes that is much lower than the average population. If you have evidence to the contrary, show us.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-6760836124517120232012-12-11T02:32:13.062+01:002012-12-11T02:32:13.062+01:00I said accidental deaths, so yes, that's the r...I said accidental deaths, so yes, that's the right number. In my view, people who are criminally negligent should be prosecuted. If you're drunk or you pull a gun out and wave it around and someone gets harmed, that's negligence, at the least. But just like car accidents, we have to recognize that people aren't perfect.<br /><br />The only way to have no gun accidents is to have no guns. That's your goal. My idea is to recognize the rights of everyone and hold everyone responsible for their actions.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-87425996865250900542012-12-11T01:46:12.981+01:002012-12-11T01:46:12.981+01:00How many would it take for you to think action is ...How many would it take for you to think action is needed, Greg? Given your definition of "liberty" I'm guess there is no upper limit. For me, even 600 (which is too low a count, I'll add, since you only count the fatal ones) is far too high.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-75353319122816456652012-12-11T01:44:32.633+01:002012-12-11T01:44:32.633+01:00Several times a week I find reports. Every day, i...Several times a week I find reports. Every day, if you count shootings at home. That counts as "all the time" in my book.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-8768483360330351992012-12-10T23:34:12.781+01:002012-12-10T23:34:12.781+01:00DC: I didn't say I don't like you. Of cou...DC: I didn't say I don't like you. Of course I don't so I guess you are perceptive there. But it is only because you don't you drop and run and never stick around to answer for your baseless accusations and claims.<br /><br />You constantly ask for citations and proof and then, when you are given that which you so clamor for - you disappear never to face them.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01606648012499886227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-20384312611837396722012-12-10T22:36:34.922+01:002012-12-10T22:36:34.922+01:00If only you had a dollar? This is your latest fav...If only you had a dollar? This is your latest favorite phrase. In the case of accidental gun deaths, you'd get around $600 in a year--not quite worth taking away the rights of 100,000,000 American gun owners.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-41756872023006049442012-12-10T22:33:25.109+01:002012-12-10T22:33:25.109+01:00Man from Oregon, carry license holders have a conv...Man from Oregon, carry license holders have a conviction rate of less than one percent. That's what I was talking about. It's backed up by evidence that we've shown your side repeatedly. As always, you have a strange definition of "all the time."Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30607047514268344952012-12-10T22:31:17.569+01:002012-12-10T22:31:17.569+01:00Mikeb, you do all the time. See how it feels?Mikeb, you do all the time. See how it feels?Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-78606977177617817622012-12-10T22:02:44.177+01:002012-12-10T22:02:44.177+01:00Just another "law abiding gun owner" act...Just another "law abiding gun owner" acting stupidly -- with his young kid in tow. If only I had a dollar for every instance when a gun owners shoots himself or others out of outright negligence. Just another "tragic accident" that, most likely, the father won't have to pay for in any way whatsover in jail time, or even having his gun rights removed.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-86438123352562407732012-12-10T22:00:53.329+01:002012-12-10T22:00:53.329+01:00And yet it happens all the time.And yet it happens all the time.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-69205490333893313492012-12-10T19:50:52.388+01:002012-12-10T19:50:52.388+01:00What the father did is incredibly tragic, sad, and...What the father did is incredibly tragic, sad, and unnecessary. I believe law enforcement should investigate every "accident" and charge the shooter with negligent homicide (or an appropriate charge such as aggravated assault if the victim did not die) in every instance. Let a jury acquit the shooter if it makes sense.<br /><br />And I believe the same should apply whether the negligent person drove a car or bicycle into someone, dropped a rock on someone, or hurled a baseball bat over a fence into someone on another property. People have to be responsible for their actions.<br /><br />What I do not support is trying to somehow predict who will be negligent and restricting their rights before they have endangered or harmed anyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-67612911628501600192012-12-10T18:49:47.933+01:002012-12-10T18:49:47.933+01:00Mike, if they don’t even know where their gun is, ...Mike, if they don’t even know where their gun is, wouldn’t you call that irresponsible and have them disarmed? And you think there are on your side?TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-4813721282632148642012-12-10T16:08:50.256+01:002012-12-10T16:08:50.256+01:00Democommie, you talked to your dog, and he told yo...Democommie, you talked to your dog, and he told you that you're not crazy? Nothing needs to be said here.<br /><br />Regarding the number of guns and gun owners, I'm tired of offering you citations that you then ignore. Look the numbers up. Those are widely accepted estimates of both. Or I'll find the sources for you if you'll address the other citations that I've given you.<br /><br />Moving on to your last paragraph, the Earth is an oblate spheroid; Obama was born in Hawaii after that region had become a state in the United States, and FEMA trailers after Katrina weren't exactly peachy, but that was just government incompetence, not anything sinister.<br /><br />On the subject of guns, we've shown you repeatedly that we have reality on our side, but I talked about that above.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-48209985324516269192012-12-10T15:57:46.930+01:002012-12-10T15:57:46.930+01:00Mikeb said, "Are you telling me what my blog ...Mikeb said, "Are you telling me what my blog is about."<br /><br />Today it looks like it is about Frank Zappa, Monsanto's GMOs and not responding to my criticism of your moral inconsistency.<br /><br />It appears to me that the comments are responses to individual posts specifically, not your blog in general. Is that correct?<br /><br />orlin sellers (munching on popcorn while I await your response)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50837466961236800142012-12-10T15:53:33.941+01:002012-12-10T15:53:33.941+01:00Then why don't they vote with you? Notice how...Then why don't they vote with you? Notice how gun control fails just about everywhere in this country.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com