tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post3098688408437338828..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Tragic Suicide in Gun-Friendly VermontAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-90477856688444628282009-09-21T14:35:50.151+02:002009-09-21T14:35:50.151+02:00"Even if someone attempts suicide by another ...<i>"Even if someone attempts suicide by another means, such as cutting themselves or taking pills, they're much more likely to survive the attempt,"</i><br /><br />You and this guy seem to have a problem discerning cause and effect.<br /><br />Perhaps, just perhaps, people who use pills or cutting as a method of suicide attempt really are trying to cry for attention instead of insure they die?<br /><br />If people deliberately choose a method because they will likely survive it, then that skews the stats. wouldn't you say Sparky?Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-89677585976503158692009-09-20T23:14:09.473+02:002009-09-20T23:14:09.473+02:00"but there are many studies and surveys out t..."but there are many studies and surveys out there to prove it."<br /><br />As usual MikeB, you make claims without backing them up.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30388900988705295002009-09-20T23:10:53.382+02:002009-09-20T23:10:53.382+02:00Looks like I'll have to respond to this at my ...Looks like I'll have to respond to this at my place<br /><br />Pretty despicable for you to flat out lie about what I said MikeB.<br /><br />No surpise you don't quote me either. What a jerk.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-11510313434103552402009-09-20T21:10:37.796+02:002009-09-20T21:10:37.796+02:00Why don't you talk about the "safe storag...Why don't you talk about the "safe storage" of prescription drugs?<br /><br />Or razor blades?<br /><br />You can ignore me all you want MikeB but the questions still stand.<br /><br />You show your bigotry by not addressing the question. You say you want to prevent harm...yet you don't address the fact that most suicides and attempts aren't committed with firearms.Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30330867732560606332009-09-20T14:29:40.399+02:002009-09-20T14:29:40.399+02:00The downside of safe storage is well known to me. ...<i>The downside of safe storage is well known to me. I've mentioned it before as the great dilemma. You want the gun to protect yourself and your family, but if you kept it like some people recommend, it would be too inaccessible to serve its purpose.</i><br><br>Who are you, and what have you done with the <i>real</i> Mikeb? That sounded, well . . . <i>reasonable</i>.<br><br>The answer to the dilemma is to "teach your children well." Raise them in the kind of home in which they have the love and family support they need to overcome the demons of adolescent angst.<br><br>Balancing security against external threats vs. safety (in terms of negligence or suicide) is a personal decision for each family, with no one-size-fits-all solution. That's why those decisions <b>must</b> be left to the individual families, rather than mandated from above. Inevitably, mistakes will be made, with tragic results. It's horrible, but tragedies--with guns and without--happen all the time, and always will.beowulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10018333747052412839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-62758552786501657032009-09-20T14:16:20.995+02:002009-09-20T14:16:20.995+02:00The downside of safe storage is well known to me. ...The downside of safe storage is well known to me. I've mentioned it before as the great dilemma. You want the gun to protect yourself and your family, but if you kept it like some people recommend, it would be too inaccessible to serve its purpose. If you don't, the thief or the suicidal teenager can get to it too easily. It's a dilemma.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-37363029965597746272009-09-20T04:42:14.782+02:002009-09-20T04:42:14.782+02:00By the way, Mikeb, I just noticed that the title o...By the way, Mikeb, I just noticed that the title of this post is "<i>Tragic</i> Suicide in Gun-Friendly Vermont." Is the first word included in order to distinguish this particular suicide from the non-tragic ones? Which would those be, Mike--those committed by means other than firearms?<br><br><a href="http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/06/east-and-south-asia-suicide-by-pesticide-ingestion-common/" rel="nofollow">Here's a <i>cheerful</i></a> suicide method for you, Mike--suicide by ingestion of insecticide. Sounds lovely doesn't it? <i>Much</i> better than suicide by gunshot, eh? Better yet, it's gaining in popularity, becoming, globally, <a href="http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2006/np24/en/" rel="nofollow">a <i>leading</i> method</a>.<br><br>Doesn't that just give you a warm, fuzzy feeling?beowulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10018333747052412839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-33260870590981650622009-09-19T17:06:51.878+02:002009-09-19T17:06:51.878+02:00I would like to expand on this point I made previo...I would like to expand on this point I made previously:<br><br><i>Sure, you could send some people to prison after their gun was used by a suicidal teenager. That should make everyone happy.</i><br><br>Proponents of "Child Access Prevention" laws might respond by explaining that such laws are meant as a <i>deterrent</i>, rather than a punishment.<br><br>Is there anyone else here who finds that rather bizarre? Are we really to believe that parents who aren't deterred by the thought of their child (or, in this case, their child's friend) using the gun to commit suicide <i>will</i> be deterred by the threat of a jail sentence?<br><br>What kind of parent would be more worried about jail than by the death of their child?beowulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10018333747052412839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-25471877790776457582009-09-19T16:55:41.803+02:002009-09-19T16:55:41.803+02:00Would a law like this keep me from having a gun re...<i>Would a law like this keep me from having a gun ready by my bed at night?</i><br><br>Excellent point. Any gun that is too inaccessible to be used for suicide is too inaccessible to be used for self-defense (for which there tends, after all, to be a much greater urgency). "Safe storage" requirements are basically self-defense prohibitions.beowulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10018333747052412839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-49923845087128703902009-09-19T16:44:14.050+02:002009-09-19T16:44:14.050+02:00We already have too many unenforceable laws. How d...We already have too many unenforceable laws. How do you enforce these laws, except after it is too late? <br /><br />Would a law like this keep me from having a gun ready by my bed at night?Sevesteenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439626386416115766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-83822828071931323042009-09-19T09:03:32.230+02:002009-09-19T09:03:32.230+02:00Sure, you could send some people to prison after t...Sure, you could send some people to prison after their gun was used by a suicidal teenager. That should make everyone happy.<br><br>There is, of course, the <a href="http://gunowners.org/op0132.htm" rel="nofollow">downside of "safe storage" laws</a>. You could argue that such cases are quite rare, and that the number of lives lost because of a lack of "gun availability" for young people (who apparently cannot be trusted with guns at the age of 17 years and 364 days, but suddenly can at midnight of that 364th day) would be exceeded by the number saved by denying that gun availability.<br><br>Perhaps. But when a young person kills himself/herself, that is his/her conscious choice, as tragic a choice as it is. When a young person (or more than one, as was the tragic case of the Carpenter children alluded to above) is murdered, in part because of a lack of available lifesaving firepower, with said lack having been mandated by law, the choice was made for them by others. Those others include everyone who pushed for such laws.<br><br>I am certainly glad I don't have anything like that on my conscience.beowulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10018333747052412839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-75017649389578337292009-09-19T06:13:43.190+02:002009-09-19T06:13:43.190+02:00Why haven't you posted about the tragic times ...Why haven't you posted about the tragic times a teen used pills for suicide?<br /><br />Or a razor blade?<br /><br />Or a car?<br /><br />Oh, that is right....a firearm is not like anything else...is it MikeB?Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.com