tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post3362211085032959670..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Trained Cop vs. Untrained CivilianAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-42688061943728238772015-08-07T16:58:18.428+02:002015-08-07T16:58:18.428+02:00No, my idea of freedom isn't way off. Your des...No, my idea of freedom isn't way off. Your desire to control is, however. Why don't you go look up real facts before you go spouting off what someone can and cant own in this country. My freedom, Americas freedoms extend way, WAY beyond the freedoms afforded to you in Italy. I am betting the reason that you choose to live in Italy is that you are one of those that cant handle real freedom and too afraid to be around those that have freedom.<br /><br />Honesty and correctness doesn't require any concern. You still haven't proven any point about how my freedoms are restricted by this mythical "MAN" that you speak of. What freedoms are restricted and by who. I am concerned about those who wish to believe that they can control a free man, any free American and you are the one that fits that description. At least you would like to anyway. Good luck with that. Big man. LOLs!Newcastlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-49753111632184799782015-08-07T12:35:13.776+02:002015-08-07T12:35:13.776+02:00"Anyone can own them?" Are you kidding?..."Anyone can own them?" Are you kidding? You say whatever you want, don't you? You have no concern for honesty or correctness, do you. <br /><br />The fact is there are many things that you cannot own legally, regardless of how much money you have. You're idea of freedom is way off.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-91166881476410252802015-08-07T08:23:16.870+02:002015-08-07T08:23:16.870+02:00Wait, you are saying Louisiana’s high murder rate ...Wait, you are saying Louisiana’s high murder rate is because of a lack of training? People just need a more training not to murder each other? And what does that have to do with CCW? A huge, HUGE majority of Louisiana murders are committed by people who don’t have CCW, and even still aren’t even allowed to own or possess firearms. This post is about training. So you need to point to statistics that have something to do with training if you are going to tout the benefits of it (like accidents and judgment mistakes). Murder and suicide are not training issues.<br /><br />But, if you are going to say Louisiana’s training requirements are so minimal that they might as well not exist, then why do you guys flip out over states going constitutional carry? You say it doesn’t make a difference- so let’s go constitutional carry in all those “minimal training” requirement states then. Fine by me. Maybe you could use it as leverage for true compromise on something since it doesn’t make a difference to you. That’s the dirty little secret to compromise- give up something you don’t care about. <br /><br />Still, I find it funny that you think an 8 hour training course, on laws, safe handling, self-defense, with tests and live fire demonstration is useless. <i>Some training is useless, but more training is <b>better</b></i> Really, how do you get there logically? Popular opinion is that training (any training, not just gun training) has diminishing returns. Anything is better than nothing. Two hours are better than one, but not twice as good. A week is better than a day, but not five times as good, etc. And obviously you can reach a point where the value added for more training time becomes zero. Even you should agree that you can reach a point where sitting in a class room for another day simply doesn’t add any more value (other than the value of making it harder to buy guns). Look, when I take a new shooter to the range, we spend about an hour going over safety rules and gun handling before supervised live shooting. You’re telling me that is useless? I might as well just hand them a loaded gun, and not even mention muzzle awareness, keeping their finger off the trigger, how to clear it, etc. Do you really think that?<br /><br />How do you feel about California’s Firearm Safety Certificate (FSC)? This used to be just for handguns, but now they applied it to all firearms to much applause by gun control advocates. This is a 30 question test with a safety demonstration using dummy rounds in front of an instructor on how to clear and safely handle a weapon, and is needed to be able to purchase any gun. No live fire, no 8-hour class. You have to consider that useless, right? It “might as well not even exist”. Do you really want to go down this path, Mike?<br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-79369691509765114622015-08-06T15:03:02.861+02:002015-08-06T15:03:02.861+02:00Yes Mike. With enough cash anyone can own them. An...Yes Mike. With enough cash anyone can own them. And I have news for you Mike, several people already own shoulder held rocket launchers and legally at that. As far as bio weapons? Yes. Most people own them already. Just look under your sink or where ever you keep your pest control products.<br /><br />Next?<br /><br />Newcastlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-4215561750971654102015-08-06T09:42:23.737+02:002015-08-06T09:42:23.737+02:00TS, the difference between the training requiremen...TS, the difference between the training requirement in LA and that of a Constitutional Carry state (zero) is minimal. It might as well not even exist. <br /><br />Plus, in the Louisiana post there was talk of overall murder rates. I guess you missed that, huh?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-7556928979067649922015-08-06T09:39:06.881+02:002015-08-06T09:39:06.881+02:00Are you free to own a shoulder held rocket launche...Are you free to own a shoulder held rocket launcher? You might conceivably need on for home defense one day. Is it only your pocket book preventing you from getting one? How about some really nasty biological weapons? Can you own those too, I mean, being as free as you are and all?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50320076178816206342015-08-05T17:38:24.805+02:002015-08-05T17:38:24.805+02:00You like to play dumb SS, either you are lying, or...You like to play dumb SS, either you are lying, or dumb, or both. You seem to lose the point from comment to comment, but thanks again for proving your dishonesty. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-68362333925865832052015-08-05T16:32:05.541+02:002015-08-05T16:32:05.541+02:00Big man? Why thank you Mike for the compliment. No...Big man? Why thank you Mike for the compliment. Now would care to explain some of the many things I cant own? Just an example please? And who "the MAN" would be that says I cant?<br /><br />Anyone is only as free as their pocketbook. I am more free than others, not as free as some. But for you to think I am not as free as you would like to believe, your just barking up the wrong tree, big man.<br />Newcastlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-21519182710812300012015-08-04T19:24:05.021+02:002015-08-04T19:24:05.021+02:00Oh, Mike. Mike, Mike, Mike… what are we going to ...Oh, Mike. Mike, Mike, Mike… what are we going to do with you? <br /><br />Your idea of “proof” that constitutional carry states have more safety mishaps while carrying is to point to a state that doesn’t have constitutional carry and say “look how many guns deaths they have!” (the bulk of which are suicides and murder by non-permit holders). As you just said, Louisiana <b>is not</b> a constitutional carry state and they do in fact have a training requirement to obtain a permit:<br /><br /><i>D.(1) In addition to the requirements of Subsection C of this Section, an applicant shall<br />demonstrate competence with a handgun by any one of the following:<br />(a) Completion of any National Rifle Association handguns safety or training course<br />conducted by a National Rifle Association certified instructor within the preceding twelve<br />months.<br />(b) Completion of any Department of Public Safety and Corrections approved firearms<br />safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement<br />agency, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school within<br />the preceding twelve months.<br />(c) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class<br />approved by the Department of Public Safety and Corrections and offered for correctional<br />officers, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or<br />security enforcement within the preceding twelve months.</i><br /><br />http://www.lsp.org/pdf/chRuleBook.pdf<br /><br />Mike, you are supposed to show that Louisiana is <b>better</b> than states like Arizona, Alaska, Vermont, Arkansas, Kansas, and Wyoming because they require training. Showing that it is the worst, makes a case <b>against</b> your claims (again, that’s just one point. If you actually want “proof” then you have to do a comprehensive study of all available data, not just cherry pick one state). Even still, in your recent post about Louisiana, you were talking about all “gun death” (no surprise), and not CCW safety mishaps that could have been prevented with more training. So you still have a chance here. Why don’t you show us how Louisiana has fewer CCW safety mishaps that could have been prevented with more training than Arizona does?<br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-86276906055769890222015-08-04T17:54:57.135+02:002015-08-04T17:54:57.135+02:00"Of course it's not your concern. It'..."Of course it's not your concern. It's also not true, but you keep using it anyways."<br /><br /> Not really sure what you're talking about Anon, which isn't unusual. Are you referring to my comment about the differences between civilian use of arms and law enforcement? What part of my comment don't you think is true in regards to these differences?ssgmarkcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480230040370709682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-20030667925114409722015-08-04T17:23:10.003+02:002015-08-04T17:23:10.003+02:00TS, I did prove it in my recent post about Louisia...TS, I did prove it in my recent post about Louisiana (not a constitutional carry state that I know of, but one with plenty of guns and loose gun laws). Your defense was pretty weak, remember, that it's all about the behavior of people whether they end up shot or not.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-76926669123396354052015-08-04T17:20:47.845+02:002015-08-04T17:20:47.845+02:00Oh, you're such a big man, Newcasle. There ar...Oh, you're such a big man, Newcasle. There are many things you cannot own because the MAN says you can't. Deny it all you want, but you're not nearly as free as you pretend to be.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-18329499283759498392015-08-04T01:46:02.706+02:002015-08-04T01:46:02.706+02:00I would very much like to meet the person(s) invol...I would very much like to meet the person(s) involved in "allowing" me to own anything. Cars and toasters included. In other words, who is "we"?<br /><br />Your right about one thing, it IS a free country. I am only restricted by my income that allows me to own what I choose, not you or anyone else.Newcastlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-88585607446017621362015-08-03T19:12:49.902+02:002015-08-03T19:12:49.902+02:00"No idea Anon. And not really my concern at p..."No idea Anon. And not really my concern at present."<br />Of course it's not your concern. It's also not true, but you keep using it anyways. Thanks for proving your dishonesty. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-22065080636744557632015-08-03T17:12:13.072+02:002015-08-03T17:12:13.072+02:00MikeB: "C'mon, ss, how many states have C...MikeB: "C'mon, ss, how many states have Constitutional Carry now? No training required."<br /><br />Not most. But since there are a handful, you should be able to statistically prove that those states have higher rates of mistakes from permit holders that training would prevent. Can you?TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-255731338836329942015-08-03T14:22:26.092+02:002015-08-03T14:22:26.092+02:00You mean like Vermont? As with any other law such...You mean like Vermont? As with any other law such as assault, homicide, etc. Its the responsibility of the person carrying to know the laws that pertain to his actions. As I said in my last comment, for the most part, the marksmanship component is a simple test that shows a minimal skill level. For my permit test, I put all required rounds center mass of a target at 21 feet. Not really a challenge.ssgmarkcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480230040370709682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-11495986296283277322015-08-03T14:02:38.383+02:002015-08-03T14:02:38.383+02:00"Is that gun violence?"
Yes, but se..."Is that gun violence?"<br /><br /> Yes, but self defense is an acceptable use of force.<br /><br />"And what are the police numbers on those who successfully defended themselves against gun violence, with their guns?"<br /><br /> No idea Anon. And not really my concern at present. <br />ssgmarkcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480230040370709682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-44534163635522187752015-08-03T11:28:03.817+02:002015-08-03T11:28:03.817+02:00C'mon, ss, how many states have Constitutional...C'mon, ss, how many states have Constitutional Carry now? No training required. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-51429403877438961552015-08-03T11:26:32.206+02:002015-08-03T11:26:32.206+02:00Well, in the sense that we allow prople to own car...Well, in the sense that we allow prople to own cars or toasters, we allow them to own guns. It's a free country.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-64900202965192512952015-08-03T02:53:06.524+02:002015-08-03T02:53:06.524+02:00"There are still many examples of citizens su..."There are still many examples of citizens successfully defending themselves against violence."<br />Is that gun violence? And what are the police numbers on those who successfully defended themselves against gun violence, with their guns? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-60317558860238439282015-08-02T20:44:52.083+02:002015-08-02T20:44:52.083+02:00To "allow" people to own guns? Thats ver...To "allow" people to own guns? Thats very cute!Newcastlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-51908452964293777282015-08-02T19:14:51.159+02:002015-08-02T19:14:51.159+02:00If you only train for your job, then you do the mi...If you only train for your job, then you do the minimum that's required by you. If you actually enjoy guns, and like shooting, and take self-defense seriously, then you constantly training and practicing as time and funds allow. These are the people commonly called "gun nuts". So they're not the ones you have to worry about, right? I'd be more concerned about the Laci and Dog Gone permit holders if I were you.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-1570974488353588522015-08-02T19:07:56.658+02:002015-08-02T19:07:56.658+02:00Most states do have mandatory training. You just ...Most states do have mandatory training. You just say it's not good enough. And you're already saying the police training isn't good enough. It's clear that whatever you get, you'll keep asking for more as a way of deterring armed self defense. And even if someone were to have "enough" training, you want carry to be impossible in practice by having a patchwork of places they can't carry while not allowing them to keep guns in cars. And you laud training, while at the same time supporting chicago's ban on training facilities. I know what you're up to.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-80931157949086715032015-08-02T19:02:09.110+02:002015-08-02T19:02:09.110+02:00Though the guy with the handgun was closer. So wh...Though the guy with the handgun was closer. So which one was the bigger threat? The simulator says the same answer every time, but reality wouldn't.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-38713463698476088542015-08-02T17:17:09.636+02:002015-08-02T17:17:09.636+02:00"The answer is "to train harder if and w..."The answer is "to train harder if and when you can," but we can't make it mandatory. That would ruin everything."<br /><br /> Mike, keep in mind that most consider bearing arms to be a right. And in most states that require carry permits, there is some level of training required. This training for the most part is covers the use of deadly force and the laws that apply to permit holders in the issuing state.<br /> Often, though always, there is a basic marksmanship test. As far as I know, there is no state which requires a test along the lines in the "study" we are discussing. If you want to somehow make a shoot/don't shoot exercise a requirement you're welcome to give it a try in any state of your choosing.<br /> However, you need to keep in mind that in regards to situations in this video, a citizen who has a carry permit isn't required to get involved in any of the scenarios with the possible exception of the car jacking since that is a one on one assault.<br /> Law enforcement, as Laci says is tasked with at least the expectation that they will engage with those committing criminal acts, though they aren't legally required to. If they don't, they might be fired, but that's it. <br /> There are many opportunities out there for additional training to include tactical training and competitions. Some go that route and some don't. As TS said, the scenarios in the study are set up for law enforcement and is a training tool. That means that officers are expected to make mistakes and learn from them. It wasn't used that way in the study.<br /> I'm wondering if the civilians in the study were given any instruction in the rules of deadly force. Considering that one person in the video shot at a fleeing criminal suggests they didn't. If the civilians in the study didn't have a carry permit, its quite unfair to put them in scenarios where they would need the knowledge a permit holder would have.<br /><br />ssgmarkcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480230040370709682noreply@blogger.com