tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post5054624001378791898..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Police Shoot Man with Baseball BatAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-45922533890423627732011-05-05T13:25:46.075+02:002011-05-05T13:25:46.075+02:00Thanks a lot Anonymous.
I'd change your first...Thanks a lot Anonymous.<br /><br />I'd change your first point to 1. A bat CAN BE a deadly weapon.<br /><br />Whether that particular situation merited a deadly-force response, is the question. Anyone like you who says yes for the mere fact that he had a bit, is failing to place the proper value on a human life.<br /><br />Responding with deadly force when there are ANY other options, is wrong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-82395446055319923032011-05-02T09:51:17.630+02:002011-05-02T09:51:17.630+02:001. A bat IS a deadly weapon!
2. Out of the three o...1. A bat IS a deadly weapon!<br />2. Out of the three officers, which should have given their life to save the others?<br />3. When confronted with deadly force you have three choices:<br /><br />A. Do nothing.<br />B. Run. ( Cops can get fired for that. )<br />C. Defend yourself.<br /><br />If you shot to wound you would be sued and possibly charged yourself because if you fear for your life and the threat is deadly anything less than deadly force will contridict that fear and he seriousness of the threat.<br /><br />Read up on the "tueller drill".<br /><br />4. Not all cops have tasers and sometimes they do not work forone reason or the other, probably did not work in this case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-88097498666671460802010-03-09T02:50:13.728+01:002010-03-09T02:50:13.728+01:00Mikeb says:Isn't it amazing how many pro-gun c...Mikeb says:<br><br><i>Isn't it amazing how many pro-gun commenters try to justify this kind of thing. It must have been really hard for them to choose between their distrust of the police and their need to defend gun use at any cost.</i><br><br>I see we're taking ollieill's word for what happened without question. I'm not calling him/her a liar, but that seems awfully trusting, Mikeb, especially for someone who immediately suspected the police of lying--and much worse.<br /><br />So be it. <br /><br />However, given the story as presented by KPHO, I stand by my initial assessment. Until I see a compelling reason to believe that the article had it entirely wrong, I see no need to back off from my contention that lethal force was entirely appropriate.<br /><br />It has nothing to do with a "need to defend gun use at any cost," and everything to do with calling a witch hunt a witch hunt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-7089216298389137392010-03-08T19:06:24.615+01:002010-03-08T19:06:24.615+01:00ollieill, Thanks for the comment. Isn't it ama...ollieill, Thanks for the comment. Isn't it amazing how many pro-gun commenters try to justify this kind of thing. It must have been really hard for them to choose between their distrust of the police and their need to defend gun use at any cost.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-2102528001227744312010-03-06T21:44:33.910+01:002010-03-06T21:44:33.910+01:00Mikeb302000,
You are correct in your presumption ...Mikeb302000,<br /><br />You are correct in your presumption of excessive force (murder) from the Peoria police. The police were called by his own family because Richard Dodds was a threat to HIMSELF with a history of depression for which he was seeking treatment. Will this 911 call that warns police to handle the situation carefully ever make the news? <br /><br />The point of having tasers is to subdue a person without shooting them. It is quite effective. One officer tasered Richard Dodds, while 2 others shot him 11 times.<br /><br />Unlike a knife, a bat is neutralized is a close space. With riot gear helmets and shields the cops could have subdued Dodds without risk of injury or death. The entire defense of the police is based on Dodds rushing them. Instead of keeping safe distance and subduing Dodds, they told him to put the bat down and when he didn't they murdered him in his own house in front of his wife.<br /><br />Dodds did not rush police. He was killed by two trigger happy cops who MIGHT lose their jobs and know when they shoot somebody that they will be given paid leave.<br /><br />Peoria police murdered Richard Dodds and lied about him rushing them to cover their own ass.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02439407443269416395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-46073618841746990252010-02-21T23:56:21.814+01:002010-02-21T23:56:21.814+01:00Speaking of cops with something of a reputation fo...Speaking of cops with something of a reputation for being quick on the trigger, <a href="http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/2007057-Ariz-cops-sixth-shooting-raises-eyebrows/" rel="nofollow"><i>this</i> officer</a> has certainly had an . . . eventful career. That article tells a pretty sinister narrative--one that I imagine will strike you, Mikeb, as being correct in its suspicious view of him. <br /><br />Reading <a href="http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2010/02/dirty_harry_in_scottsdale_bada.php" rel="nofollow">this</a>, though, I'm not sure I see anything to make me believe that he's anything but a good cop, and one hell of a good gunfighter, who has, in defiance of all statistical likelihood, had occasion to legitimately shoot 6 bad guys. Admittedly, that source is a blog, rather than a "respected" news source--which might, depending on one's perspective (not mine), make it less reliable than the first source I linked to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-10097050183349992302010-02-08T10:20:32.090+01:002010-02-08T10:20:32.090+01:00Zorro, Thanks for that link. That is certainly a ...Zorro, Thanks for that link. That is certainly a good cop. I guess it's like gun owners or any other group, there are some good and some bad. The percentages are up for debate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-64522769588151950162010-02-07T16:00:45.217+01:002010-02-07T16:00:45.217+01:00Mikeb, you tend (by your own admission) to be pret...Mikeb, you tend (by your own admission) to be pretty hard on cops. For that matter, I have my own cynicism about the "<a href="http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=%22Only+Ones%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwaronguns.blogspot.com&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&oq=" rel="nofollow">Only Ones</a>," and my own suspicions about the government's hired armed muscle.<br /><br />Therefore, I thought you'd like to read something about a cop whom I think <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/49794.html" rel="nofollow">we can agree is worthy of admiration</a>. Might even force you to reevaluate your thinking about what kind of people live in Montana.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-24267521431237035222010-02-03T23:46:27.038+01:002010-02-03T23:46:27.038+01:00By the way, Mikeb, if you want to talk about a law...By the way, Mikeb, if you want to talk about a law enforcement shooting that looks suspiciously like somewhat excessive force, you might consider <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/01/national/a081653S10.DTL" rel="nofollow"><i>this</i> little gem</a>. It seems to me that the FBI could have "protected the public" sufficiently with only 12 or 15 shots into the handcuffed suspect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-6602078939447531982010-02-03T19:00:18.003+01:002010-02-03T19:00:18.003+01:00If you don't find such an example (and I'm...<i>If you don't find such an example (and I'm confident you won't</i><br /><br />Don't hold your breath. Democommie won't bring facts or examples to the discussion. He rarely does.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-86732841913359091052010-02-03T18:59:21.033+01:002010-02-03T18:59:21.033+01:00Cops are trained to shoot to "stop the threat...Cops are trained to shoot to "stop the threat" That means center of mass. The thoracic triangle if we're really being specific.<br /><br />The targets my brother uses look something like this.<br /><br />http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=DST-CB<br /><br />Someone weilding a baseball bat and threatening you is absolutely a lethal threat. That's not even up for debate.<br /><br />If you disagree then have someone grab a bat and hit you full force with it.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-59013624676136036512010-02-03T18:51:48.030+01:002010-02-03T18:51:48.030+01:00I've got a better idea. You show me the specif...<i>I've got a better idea. You show me the specific training manuals that tell police recruits to use deadly force against assailants--in every department in the country.</i><br /><br />You're kidding right?<br /><br />If someone is threatening the cops with a deadly weapon they are well within their rights to respond with deadly force.<br /><br />Are you claiming that police training tells cops they may not shoot someone who is threatening them with a deadly weapon? Please show me any Dept. Training manual that says this.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-81268294109388028172010-02-03T13:50:52.180+01:002010-02-03T13:50:52.180+01:00Democommie says, apparently while huffing paint fu...Democommie says, apparently while huffing paint fumes:<br><br><i><br />I've got a better idea. You show me the specific training manuals that tell police recruits to use deadly force against assailants--in every department in the country.</i><br><br>You apparently have me confused with your research assistant (unpaid, of course). I am not, and owe you nothing. I <i>certainly</i> don't owe you the impossible task of getting <i>every</i> department's policy on use of deadly force (as if you'd read 1% of them anyway).<br /><br />When I suggested you find one--just <i>one</i>--example of cops being trained to "shoot to disable" an assailant, I made that suggestion because if you had managed to do so, it would have significantly bolstered your argument that the cops in question should have tried that . . . <i>novel</i> approach to neutralizing a deadly threat.<br /><br />If you don't find such an example (and I'm confident you won't), fine--that's no skin off my nose. It's not <i>I</i> who come off looking foolish here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-21749237261692683422010-02-03T13:25:29.682+01:002010-02-03T13:25:29.682+01:00"A third officer may have deployed her taser&..."A third officer may have deployed her taser"?<br /><br />So, the cops had tasers and the gun was still the only effective tool for stopping the guy? Or do tasers only work when the suspect is already in cuffs?democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-5064273011187517452010-02-03T05:52:42.295+01:002010-02-03T05:52:42.295+01:00Zorro:
I've got a better idea. You show me t...Zorro:<br /><br />I've got a better idea. You show me the specific training manuals that tell police recruits to use deadly force against assailants--in every department in the country.<br /><br />It's a two way street. You and mikey like to throw out challenges and then disappear when someone else challenges you. <br /><br />Show the documentation.democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-67334860074283081872010-02-01T19:25:34.741+01:002010-02-01T19:25:34.741+01:00Mikeb says:Why are gun owners so reluctant to admi...Mikeb says:<br><br><i>Why are gun owners so reluctant to admit that a shooting might have been unwarranted?</i><br><br>I have no problem at all in admitting that. What I object to is the <i>assumption</i> that the shooting was unjustified, with exactly <b>zero</b> evidence to support that . . . <i>remarkable</i> assertion.<br><br>Mikeb also says:<br><br><i>The only ones I like to persecute more than gun owners are law enforcement gun owners.</i><br><br>This, from the same guy who contemptuously dismisses the possibility that gun owners are subject to bigotry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-31904644928307843362010-02-01T17:23:13.672+01:002010-02-01T17:23:13.672+01:00Can we agree there are not enough facts in the sto...<i>Can we agree there are not enough facts in the story to tell one way or another?</i><br /><br />There was a man threatening police with a bat. That's all the facts you need. They asked him to drop the bat, he did not. That didn't leave them with any other alternative that didn't risk one of those officers not going home to his family at the end of his shift.<br /><br />It doesn't take being high on PCP, or super human strength. Go put a water melon up on a stand, and give it one good swing with a baseball bat. Now imagine that was a human head. If you want to try it with a coconut too, if you insist on something harder, be my guest. Baseball bats are deadly weapons.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648225987293475835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-73344188688769006542010-02-01T17:18:17.516+01:002010-02-01T17:18:17.516+01:00I admit, it is possible for one man with a basebal...I admit, it is possible for one man with a baseball bat, a big man, high on PCP and all pumped up from a raging fight with the wife, to so frighten three armed policemen.<br /><br />Can we agree there are not enough facts in the story to tell one way or another?<br /><br />You know how I like to read into these stories. The only ones I like to persecute more than gun owners are law enforcement gun owners.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-73638304907397805642010-02-01T16:39:28.066+01:002010-02-01T16:39:28.066+01:00Why are gun owners so reluctant to admit that a sh...<i>Why are gun owners so reluctant to admit that a shooting might have been unwarranted? When someone pulls a gun and shoots or prepares to shoot at the cops, I'm all for their blowing him away. But in anything short of that, I have my doubts. Aren't the police too often overly aggressive in these situations?</i><br /><br />You know I am not reluctant to admit such when that is the situation, but if you and three friends want to try to disarm a man with a baseball bat, and see how many of you end up in the hospital or worse, be sure to capture that on film.<br /><br />Do you think this is the movies, where you can just hit someone and knock them out for a bit? All it takes is one good hit with a baseball bat to smash someone's skull in. One hit can be lethal. On hit can break a bone and put you on the ground, unable to escape further hits.<br /><br />No, shooting someone threatening you with a baseball bat is absolutely the proper thing for a police officer, or anyone else.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648225987293475835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-20370019914988156502010-02-01T08:12:02.260+01:002010-02-01T08:12:02.260+01:00Why are gun owners so reluctant to admit that a sh...Why are gun owners so reluctant to admit that a shooting might have been unwarranted? When someone pulls a gun and shoots or prepares to shoot at the cops, I'm all for their blowing him away. But in anything short of that, I have my doubts. Aren't the police too often overly aggressive in these situations?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-10875845279945802162010-02-01T08:05:03.236+01:002010-02-01T08:05:03.236+01:00Democommie--if there's a police academy in the...Democommie--if there's a police academy in the entire country that trains recruits to "shoot to disable," rather than to shoot for center mass, I'll owe you a box of ammunition--your choice of caliber.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-30756912836224300162010-02-01T05:30:42.504+01:002010-02-01T05:30:42.504+01:00The post does not make clear what the man did. It...The post does not make clear what the man did. It makes clear what the cops say he did. <br /><br />Now, all of you gun owners, especially the mike w. and zorro's of the world are surely good enough shots to disable a guy without having to wound him critically? If not, then I guess you maybe shouldn't be shooting at people. Oh, wait, he was attacking 3 armed police officers. Sure a basebaeall bat can be deadly but I'm guessing a Glock will beat it for both average and distance, every time.<br /><br />But, then how much fun would it be to just subdue someone when you can shoot him instead?democommiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714733977927594559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-35506063272047767672010-01-31T11:30:34.197+01:002010-01-31T11:30:34.197+01:00Sebastian said, "I'd rather go up against...Sebastian said, <i>"I'd rather go up against someone with a switchblade than with a bat."</i><br /><br />You must mean if you were unarmed. With a gun in hand, it wouldn't matter much, I'd say.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-60131927350378152792010-01-30T20:20:56.653+01:002010-01-30T20:20:56.653+01:00Hey MikeB, shouldn't we blame little leaguers?...Hey MikeB, shouldn't we blame little leaguers? After all if not for them people wouldn't "need" bats and maybe this guy wouldn't have one.<br /><br />Let's ban bats, who cares if we inconvenience little kids?Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-32137570392449444202010-01-30T15:03:03.980+01:002010-01-30T15:03:03.980+01:00What I'm saying is it seems like overkill when...<i>What I'm saying is it seems like overkill when three cops shoot a guy to death for wielding a bat.</i><br><br>Point 1: To "shoot a guy to death," doesn't the guy have to have died?<br /><br />Point 2: When being charged by an enraged guy brandishing a bat, with every apparent intent to cause you and your partners death or great physical harm, what's <i>your</i> brilliant idea for coming out of it without your head smashed in?<br /><br />You admit that a bat can be used as a deadly weapon. The story, as given, makes clear that the guy gave every indication of intending to of do his best to use it precisely that way.<br /><br />Good shooting, Officers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com