tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post6595140468782096542..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Comparing Gun Control to Prohibition is SillyAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-32741889593335220802013-10-06T17:40:24.721+02:002013-10-06T17:40:24.721+02:00"It doesn't matter what the laws are, som..."It doesn't matter what the laws are, someone is going to find a way to obtain a gun."<br /><br />Yes, "someone" will. Even many will. But not AS MANY. Strict gun control laws will not prevent ALL the crime but they will prevent some.<br /><br />Does that make sense to you?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-48086561577961375952013-10-04T20:13:35.359+02:002013-10-04T20:13:35.359+02:00By current laws in Connecticut, the man who shot u...By current laws in Connecticut, the man who shot up sandy hook could not legally carry a gun due to reason of insanity. His mother taught him how to shoot, despite his mental background.<br />This is PROOF that your background checks for the insane do not work. It doesn't matter what the laws are, someone is going to find a way to obtain a gunAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-44432165603687807432012-11-01T16:23:57.669+01:002012-11-01T16:23:57.669+01:00More so than if guns were illegal to begin with? ...More so than if guns were illegal to begin with? Again you are treading around this idea that regulations would work better than prohibitions. Are you saying guns are easier to control than heroin <b>because</b> guns are legal?TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-18722252567122385872012-11-01T11:47:51.704+01:002012-11-01T11:47:51.704+01:00TS: "Heroin almost always starts of illegal. ...TS: "Heroin almost always starts of illegal. "<br /><br />That's the point exactly. Because guns start the legal property of people, they can be regulated in such a way that their flow into the criminal world is seriously diminished.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-6671682209582021142012-11-01T00:50:00.700+01:002012-11-01T00:50:00.700+01:00Speaking of backfiring...Cook County, Illinois is ...Speaking of backfiring...Cook County, Illinois is going to institute a $25 gun tax for every firearm purchased in the county. Gun shops in surrounding counties will see a sudden uptick in gun sales while shops in Cook county will lose business. Lawful gun buyers are hurt, but not the criminal element because they don't buy their guns from gun shops...imagine that.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427585162124426985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-76890091185998798212012-11-01T00:47:00.251+01:002012-11-01T00:47:00.251+01:00MikeB stated, "But to suggest that making zip...MikeB stated, "But to suggest that making zip guns in the basement could make up for the practically unhindered flow of guns into the criminal world now, is ludicrous."<br /><br />Why is it ludicrous? What is your evidence to support your opinion? Surely you don't dispute the simple FACT that a person can make a single shot shotgun with a few dollars in parts (available at any hardware store) and 15 minutes of effort. So why wouldn't criminals use such a simple, effective, readily available firearm if more sophisticated firearms were not readily available?<br /><br />Criminals are notorious for using bricks, sticks, bats, tire irons, steak knives, etc. to attack people. And even more motivated criminals acquire firearms for attacking people. Why wouldn't such a motivated criminal simply make or purchase a zip gun if traditional firearms were not available?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-41576927417804202962012-11-01T00:20:14.850+01:002012-11-01T00:20:14.850+01:00MikeB: “You are the guys who use it as a compariso...MikeB: “You are the guys who use it as a comparison to what we want to do with gun restrictions, and that's what makes no sense.”<br /><br />No, I am saying since stricter policies haven’t worked what makes you think yours will? <br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-68181854728885725792012-11-01T00:17:34.314+01:002012-11-01T00:17:34.314+01:00You guys just can’t seem to address my point about...You guys just can’t seem to address my point about heroin. Your question dodging skills are, shall we say near “presidential” levels? <br /><br />Heroin almost always starts of illegal. How well is that working at keeping it away from people who shouldn’t have it? How well do you think it would work to make it legal, and then try to constrain the people to secure their property through lots and lots of regulations? Would it work better than the way it is now? That is why we keep pointing out the failures of prohibition and how these levels of access is the very best you can hope for (i.e. it’s hopeless). Many people are calling for the end of the drug war to save money and to save lives. This is why these comparisons are valid.<br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-90130945847250750332012-11-01T00:04:55.710+01:002012-11-01T00:04:55.710+01:00Mike: “I find Jadegold's description of what r...Mike: “I find Jadegold's description of what really happened during Prohibition compelling and convincing.”<br /><br />What “really happened”? What does that mean? What Jadegold said doesn’t contradict the reasons why we say Prohibition is a failure. Prohibition was a failure because of the crime wave it created, and the empowerment it gave to the mob. And the fact that anyone who was willing to break the law to get alcohol could still easily do it. Fewer total people consuming alcohol doesn’t change the unintended consequences that made it worse for the country. And guns are no different. If the 2nd amendment were replaced by a prohibition of guns amendment there is every reason to believe the same thing would happen. Yes, fewer people would own guns and much fewer people would recreationally shoot them. But crime would go up due to the extra black market it created. Would you call that “working” in your mind? To use that argument about Prohibition implies that you would.<br /><br />MikeB: “I didn't say prohibiting something would backfire.”<br /><br />No you didn’t. That conclusion is logically derived from the main point of this post, and you’ll note that I kept asking this as a question to clarify your point. You say we can’t compare gun control to Prohibition, because you are only after restrictions, not prohibition (though I keep pointing out how you do indeed want prohibition for some things). But prohibition is <b>stricter</b> than “reasonable regulations”. If we show you how prohibition of an item is an utter failure through examples of the past (alcohol) and present (drugs), then it is a valid argument for why your restrictions won’t work. So unless you are trying to tell us that stricter regulations only work to a degree, and then it begins to backfire as it approaches prohibition- then the comparison of gun control to Prohibition is most definitely <b>not silly.</b><br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-41899389351464051812012-10-31T22:04:28.323+01:002012-10-31T22:04:28.323+01:00No, TS, what I'm saying is almost all the guns...No, TS, what I'm saying is almost all the guns in criminal hands right now started out the lawful property of some gun owner. Since you guys are enjoying such laxity with the way you secure your property, you need to be constrained to do it better - by the government.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-38431109814861713492012-10-31T22:01:32.524+01:002012-10-31T22:01:32.524+01:00We have talked about that before, I've even po...We have talked about that before, I've even posted about it. But to suggest that making zip guns in the basement could make up for the practically unhindered flow of guns into the criminal world now, is ludicrous. So I usually ignore such nonsense.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-39733233879480917522012-10-31T21:59:00.613+01:002012-10-31T21:59:00.613+01:00TS, I didn't say prohibiting something would b...TS, I didn't say prohibiting something would backfire. I find Jadegold's description of what really happened during Prohibition compelling and convincing. You are the guys who use it as a comparison to what we want to do with gun restrictions, and that's what makes no sense.<br /><br />Because I'm not an extremist, I don't want to eradicate guns from the face of the earth. I want reasonable restrictions and for gun owners to be responsible.<br /><br />You say, "Criminals will get guns, no matter where the law stands." That's only true if you mean SOME criminals, which would be another way of saying fewer.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-82978391377102426542012-10-31T19:47:49.551+01:002012-10-31T19:47:49.551+01:00E.N., what drug are you on? Please tell us so we ...E.N., what drug are you on? Please tell us so we can avoid it. It's doing bad things to you.<br /><br />I live in a dry county, but there's a ballot measure to overturn that, and I don't support our dry status. The county just to the south is wet, and it's legal to brew my own where I live.<br /><br />But what exactly does a right mean to you? We have a right to sobriety? Well, if that's your choice, fine, but there's no right to have the government force us to choose your preference. You argue for a right to be controlled. That's a perversion of the concept of rights.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-29885214856350048372012-10-31T19:42:11.766+01:002012-10-31T19:42:11.766+01:00Necessary? Not at all. We can manage all of thos...Necessary? Not at all. We can manage all of those things without disarming citizens. Besides, the preamble to the Constitution isn't the statement of our enumerated rights. It describes the purpose (and thus the boundaries of the powers) of the government. Governments don't have rights.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-5441758451187920202012-10-31T19:39:32.728+01:002012-10-31T19:39:32.728+01:00E.N., you're commenting on the Internet while ...E.N., you're commenting on the Internet while wondering if knowledge can be banned. But speaking of obscenity, ever noticed how much porn comes up in a spam folder every day? You control freaks dream of denying content to the masses, but people get what they want anyway. Besides, basic firearm designs aren't conceptually difficult.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-90068113211488108842012-10-31T19:33:05.232+01:002012-10-31T19:33:05.232+01:00Civilian disarmament is necessary to "ensure ...Civilian disarmament is necessary to "ensure domestic tranquility", "promote the general welfare", "provide for the common defense" and to provide for "the security of a free State". The State bears the responsibility to ensure the right to civilian disarmament in order to guarantee these rights expressed by the constitution. E.N.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-42605218221183398792012-10-31T19:23:52.922+01:002012-10-31T19:23:52.922+01:00I wonder if the instructions on the manufacture of...I wonder if the instructions on the manufacture of small arms can be declared to constitute "obscenity" under the "Miller Test" (due to it's deadly purpose) and therefore be prohibited in accordance with the current interpretation of the Constitution.<br /><br />Therefore non-State actors would not possess the knowledge necessary for the manufacture of deadly arms. E.N.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-88886768701352851602012-10-31T19:22:43.365+01:002012-10-31T19:22:43.365+01:00Whoa there, now you’re messing with Jadegold’s eas...Whoa there, now you’re messing with Jadegold’s easy access to Dogfish Head beers. Prepare to get smacked down by some sage logic.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-24028019449164315392012-10-31T19:17:08.181+01:002012-10-31T19:17:08.181+01:00If the U.S. government was capable of effectively ...If the U.S. government was capable of effectively enforcing constitutional rights (such as the right to sobriety) the Volstead Act would have never been repealed, and the Twenty First Amendment would have never been conceived. <br /><br />Alcohol, like (civilian) firearms, serves only to cause disorder within society and enables persons subject to the rule of law to escape the social control implemented by the State. The proliferation of intoxicating substances serves no social function, medically accepted purpose, and in no way contributes to collective industry. Therefore it is the responsibility of the State to prohibit or (strictly) regulate it.<br /><br /><br />Greg must agree with me, as he resides in a predominantly "dry" State. E.N.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50387841106980855122012-10-31T19:16:38.468+01:002012-10-31T19:16:38.468+01:00Many firearms designs are public domain. Anyone w...Many firearms designs are public domain. Anyone with a machine shop could make a revolver, and a basic semiautomatic handgun wouldn't challenge many. A shotgun would be even easier.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-12990053216081814632012-10-31T19:11:42.190+01:002012-10-31T19:11:42.190+01:00What if an above average gunloon made a whole bunc...What if an above average gunloon made a whole bunch and then distributed them to the average?<br /><br />It doesn’t matter though. That would only come into play if existing guns got super scarce- but nobody is talking about banning and confiscating guns, right?<br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-64619562494385772842012-10-31T19:09:34.831+01:002012-10-31T19:09:34.831+01:00There is no right to civilian disarmament. You...There is no right to civilian disarmament. You're claiming that we have a right to have our choices taken away from us. That's a perversion of the concept of rights.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-73872629920033730862012-10-31T19:06:13.860+01:002012-10-31T19:06:13.860+01:00I agree with Greg, gun ownership rates are increas...I agree with Greg, gun ownership rates are increasing in the U.S. It is for this reason that the government (Federal) must take action and enforce the people's right to civilian disarmament. E.N.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-34355287801585640552012-10-31T19:04:21.909+01:002012-10-31T19:04:21.909+01:00"How come none of the gun grabbers ever respo..."How come none of the gun grabbers ever respond to posts that make it clear how easy it is to make a simple gun?"<br /><br />The answer, of course, it isn't that easy.<br /><br />I know gunloons will regale us with stories of zip guns and the like but the fact is the average gunloon can't do it. And those who can aren't going to be able to produce an accurate firearm that reliably works.<br /><br />Jadegoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09219212637582238275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-69903424262067194342012-10-31T18:51:34.587+01:002012-10-31T18:51:34.587+01:00Goldilocks, it doesn't surprise me that you ca...Goldilocks, it doesn't surprise me that you can't follow an analogy. To you, guns are sui generis. But the facts are against you:<br /><br />1. Machine shops could make firearms.<br /><br />2. Firearms could cross the southern border along with drugs and illegal immigrants.<br /><br />3. The 300,000,000+ firearms in this country would increase in street value.<br /><br />4. Military and police arsenals would become robbery targets.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com