tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post8647499255828340526..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Laci Opines about the Dred Scott DecisionAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-5305084746995778322009-10-16T17:53:14.492+02:002009-10-16T17:53:14.492+02:00Interesting how my comment didn't get approved...Interesting how my comment didn't get approved.<br /><br />Why is that MikeB!<br /><br />I know for a fact that it didn't violate your requirements for commenting...NOT ONE violation.<br /><br />Is this the ethical behavior you claim to live?Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-32632514166285410552009-10-16T17:31:17.312+02:002009-10-16T17:31:17.312+02:00After linking to Laci's post yesterday on Dred...After linking to Laci's post yesterday on <i>Dred Scott</i>, I took a look at the rest of the posts since that one, and think it would best be described as a long rant, largely lacking in any deliberative or intellectual quality. I would therefore conclude that any further engagement with Laci is a waste of time.<br /><br />I don't demand people agree with me. There are plenty of arguments you can make for restrictive gun laws, and I've heard them all by this point, but I don't have time for someone who's idea of an argument is flinging invectives at their opponents. That's not someone interested in debate. That's an angry person venting.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648225987293475835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-78698188239855930132009-10-16T17:00:49.970+02:002009-10-16T17:00:49.970+02:00If you say they are not cops and I show you docume...If you say they are not cops and I show you documented evidence that they are cops under the law then you are LYING.<br /><br />Yes, your statement is based on your opinion, but it is also factually untrue.<br /><br />Even if you're right about Laci, that she's just joking, does that excuse her statements at all?<br /><br />If you continually made statements about raping little girls I'd call you a vile, despicable human being whether you were joking or not.<br /><br />Also, there's nothing in any of Laci's posts that infers she's joking.<br /><br />If she said the same exact things about Jews that she has about gun owners I'd call her a bigoted anti-semite, and her own words would back up my claim.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-53419569262315375102009-10-16T16:50:08.950+02:002009-10-16T16:50:08.950+02:00Mike W., You asked how can I align myself with som...Mike W., You asked how can I align myself with someone like Laci. Part of it is I'm not such a literalist as you are. When I read all those excessive remarks you keep referring to, I don't take them literally. And I don't think they were meant literally. They're hyperbole. What they mean to me is Laci doesn't like you guys, not that he wants to kill anyone literally. That's the way I take it anyway.<br /><br />Here's another example of your being a literalist and my not and that causing confusion. You asked about this too. I say prison guards and parole officers are pseudo-cops. That's my attitude towards them, it's my opinion. You showed me that in PA that is "literally" wrong. I don't care if the law in PA says they're equal to real cops or whatever, to me they're a good step lower, and as an aside, I'll bet the real cops agree. Ask you relatives.<br /><br />Where we got in trouble, though, is your calling what I said a "lie." I don't think that's fair. The worst you could accuse me of is being wrong, and even that I'd argue. But you can't call that lying.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-37649074058549933792009-10-16T16:02:23.958+02:002009-10-16T16:02:23.958+02:00So, I am open to other's viewpoints and try to...<i>So, I am open to other's viewpoints and try to understand them.</i><br /><br />Right, which is why you resort to namecalling as say we should all die. Sure sounds like someone who's tolerant and openminded to me!<br /><br />And then of course there's the whole "no comments" thing on your blog, not even contact info. <br /><br /> Yup, you're "open to other's viewpoints" by not allowing other's viewpoints on your blog. Excellent logic Laci!Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-58437729967091369072009-10-16T15:52:10.973+02:002009-10-16T15:52:10.973+02:00While, in my rude way, I examine the argument pres...<i>While, in my rude way, I examine the argument presented and found it seriously lacking. I give my reasons for this.</i><br /><br />So wishing death upon pro-gun folks in a number of different posts is "examining the argument presented?"<br /><br />Cheering with joy at the death of people simply because they're gun owners and fight gun control is flat out sick and frankly makes me question your mental stability.<br /><br />While I would never advocate further gun control laws I really do think it's best for some folks not to exercise that right. Based on your statements you certainly fall into that group.<br /><br />Repeatedly stating your desire to murder pro-gun folks simply for being pro-gun is beyond sick.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-37246071229763679252009-10-16T09:38:48.068+02:002009-10-16T09:38:48.068+02:00Thanks kaveman.Thanks kaveman.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-65516003442403595982009-10-16T06:03:05.764+02:002009-10-16T06:03:05.764+02:00"I've noticed that both Laci and Phuckpol..."I've noticed that both Laci and Phuckpolitics tone it down a good bit over here, which I appreciate."<br /><br />I read your blog every day MikeB.<br /><br />I refuse to read blogs that don't allow comments.<br /><br />We may disagree on a whole host of subjects, but the fact that you allow comments AND respond to issues raised in those comments grants you a certain amount of respect in my eyes.<br /><br />You won't ever convert me into an anti and I most likely will never convert you into a staunch 2A defender.<br /><br />My purpose here is to challenge your perceptions and all the propaganda that shape your views.<br /><br />Refute me if you can; I welcome it.<br /><br />You have provided a forum for open debate, wish I value.<br /><br />Don't change unless your soul compels you too. But be open to new ideas, logic and true "common sense."kavemannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-14162723594635444432009-10-16T00:23:13.861+02:002009-10-16T00:23:13.861+02:00I doubt that post will ever be quoted in any schol...I doubt that post will ever be quoted in any scholarly journals!Laci the Chinese Crestedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07371541369012938298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50148994216362377822009-10-15T23:31:32.564+02:002009-10-15T23:31:32.564+02:00Isn't a better way of defining bigot as someon...Isn't a better way of defining bigot as someone who obstinately holds an opinion and refuses to see the other's view point?<br /><br />While, in my rude way, I examine the argument presented and found it seriously lacking. I give my reasons for this.<br /><br />So, I am open to other's viewpoints and try to understand them.<br /><br />On the other hand, I see a lot of people trying to foist their opinions on others and not trying to understand the other's point of view.Laci the Chinese Crestedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07371541369012938298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-88516726798583244842009-10-15T22:48:18.373+02:002009-10-15T22:48:18.373+02:00Also Laci, a "concealed weapons badge" i...Also Laci, a "concealed weapons badge" is a TERRIBLE IDEA. I don't know a single person who would ever carry one. Your permit is a legally recognized document, a badge is just some useless piece of plastic you bought over the internet.<br /><br />There's not a single state that issues any such badge to a person when they get their permit, so why would anyone go and buy a "CCW badge?"<br /><br />In fact, fake badges open you up to legal issues for impersonating an LEO, depending upon your state statutes.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-33179480232368021942009-10-15T22:40:06.929+02:002009-10-15T22:40:06.929+02:00"I don't loath gun owners, just idiots wh...<i>"I don't loath gun owners, just idiots who aren't able to comprehend logic, make idiotic comments, have caused gun laws to become more lax.</i><br /><br />Yup, and as you said, gun owners who won't go along with your "progressive" gun control ideas should be killed off for having the temerity to oppose you.<br /><br />You didn't just let that slip once, it's a position you've taken with regularity on your blog, even going so far as to say on numerous occasions that YOU would love to be the one to <i>"pop a cap in their sorry moronic arses"</i> (your words not mine)<br /><br />As Saysuncle would say, Why are anti-gunners so violent?Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-69952309209979131282009-10-15T21:39:19.700+02:002009-10-15T21:39:19.700+02:00Bigot: "a person obstinately or intolerantly ...Bigot: "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"<br /><br />Hmmm, I am open to argument, but I have yet to see anything the "pro-gun" side has to say that is really cogent or persuasive. As for my "hatred" toward them:<br /><br />Isn't that something like being a self-loathing Jew if you're Jewish and say you don't support Israel? I guess logic that makes me a self-loathing gun owner.<br /><br />I don't loath gun owners, just idiots who aren't able to comprehend logic, make idiotic comments, have caused gun laws to become more lax, and are just messing things up for the rest of us.<br /><br />(see I toned that down)Laci the Chinese Crestedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07371541369012938298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-47725014442550936532009-10-15T21:20:35.280+02:002009-10-15T21:20:35.280+02:00MikeB. I try to respect your board. As you point ...MikeB. I try to respect your board. As you point out, I do tone down quite a bit.<br /><br />I guess I'll have to forget about ever being a judge!<br /><br />Anyway, In short, using the dicta from a case which is used as an example of poor judicial decision making does not make a point.<br /><br />I've added material to say that I a much less polite way in the post<br /><br />As for my comment about hoping you all shoot yourselves. Well, I guess that goes toward the calling people bigots.<br /><br />If you aren't even going to try to see my point of view, then we aren't going to make any progress. <br /><br />And I guess, quite frankly, that's the point of MikeB post if you are so despirate to make a point that you have to use incredibly faulty logic to butress your argument, then you are really not helping the issue.Laci the Chinese Crestedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07371541369012938298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-68970193232306012972009-10-15T21:07:52.298+02:002009-10-15T21:07:52.298+02:00Go to my post MikeB - I link to each quote. They&#...Go to my post MikeB - I link to each quote. They're not taken out of context one bit.<br /><br />Laci's comments are vile, despicable, and utterly disrespectful. Period. The only reason you're defending her is because she's an anti-gunner.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-24618267635885824992009-10-15T20:54:30.281+02:002009-10-15T20:54:30.281+02:00VOR, I'll have to look up that term, "sec...VOR, I'll have to look up that term, "secular statist." I doesn't sound as bad a bigot though.<br /><br />Sebastian, thanks for what you said.<br /><br />Mike W.,I realize in these exchanges you've been referring to Laci, but let's not forget you've called me a bigot many a time.<br /><br />As far as Laci's blog, I agree it's over the top, especially when you take the worst quotes out of context. It reminds me of Phuckpolitics. Have you seen his site? As you know I don't go in for that style myself, but I say live and let live about what people do on their own blogs. I've noticed that both Laci and Phuckpolitics tone it down a good bit over here, which I appreciate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-33017073316013556972009-10-15T20:28:12.965+02:002009-10-15T20:28:12.965+02:00MikeB,
I have not had a chance to respond to your...MikeB,<br /><br />I have not had a chance to respond to your last question to me from a previous post. I will when time permits.<br /><br />On a side note, bigot may be technically correct when MikeW describes you. I think the definition is too narrow to describe you. In a broad sense, I would describe you as a secular statist.VORnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-7420417147680026292009-10-15T20:28:08.045+02:002009-10-15T20:28:08.045+02:00person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his ...<i>person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.</i><br /><br />I wasn't referring to you MikeB, I was referring specifically to Laci's comments as I quoted in my blog post.<br /><br />I'd say expressing joy at the death of 2 people specifically because they belong to a group you have extreme prejudice against certainly qualifies as bigotry, among other things.<br /><br />You don't see me or any of the pro-gunners here saying we hope you die because you advocate infringing upon our rights.<br /><br />Laci says she hoped Hain was killed with her own gun so the tragedy could be exploited (by Laci and her ilk)<br /><br />Laci claims it'd be a "better world" if us gun owners all shot ourselves. That we should all die so that she can achieve the glorious gun control paradise she wants.<br /><br />If that's the kind of company you want to keep that's OK MikeB, but someone that vile deserves to be ridiculed for her statements.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-85524442356998966702009-10-15T20:09:03.455+02:002009-10-15T20:09:03.455+02:00I find you frustrating, because it's difficult...I find you frustrating, because it's difficult for me to decrypt your way of thinking, but I don't find you bigoted.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648225987293475835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-76813901328522917712009-10-15T20:03:46.061+02:002009-10-15T20:03:46.061+02:00Sebastian, Please don't stop there. Is Mike W....Sebastian, Please don't stop there. Is Mike W. using the word correctly or not when he uses it to describe me?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-48679028197249727842009-10-15T20:02:21.603+02:002009-10-15T20:02:21.603+02:00"Dred Scott says nothing about the nature of ...<i>"Dred Scott says nothing about the nature of the right"</i><br /><br />It specifically lays out which rights would have been protected if Scott were a citizen.<br /><br />Included is the right of individual citizens to "keep & bear arms wherever they went."<br /><br />Ignoring plain text that clearly shows that the right was understood to be individual rather than collective doesn't make those words disappear.<br /><br />BTW - I thought of other words for what I quoted from you, but bigotry was most appropriate.<br /><br />MikeB - I didn't call her a bigot for disagreeing with me, I called her a bigot based on things said in her own posts.<br /><br />Go read what she wrote MikeB, do you think I'm wrong to call her out and ridicule her for it?<br /><br />It's disgusting and disrespectful. No way around that.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-77576347714042524852009-10-15T19:35:13.702+02:002009-10-15T19:35:13.702+02:00Mike W., I've always had difficulty understand...<i>Mike W., I've always had difficulty understanding your use of the word "bigotry" in reference to my disagreeing with you on gun issues.</i><br /><br />Defined as " a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance" It is a greatly misused word, actually, but it's greatly misused by a great many people, not just Second Amendment activists. But often times it's properly used, and people think it's improper because they think it has something to do with racism, which is not true. It may have that connotation today, but it's not the formal definition of the word.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648225987293475835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-11022678028897040922009-10-15T19:25:01.443+02:002009-10-15T19:25:01.443+02:00What do you think? Is Laci barking up the wrong tr...<i>What do you think? Is Laci barking up the wrong tree? Or is there something to these remarks that makes sense?</i><br /><br />Dred Scott is quoted not for the quality the decision, which everyone agrees was dreadful and wrong, but to establish what the public meaning was of the Second Amendment before the establishment of the Second Amendment. Part of establishing what the public understanding was of the right is in showing what various figured believed it meant, and something from a Supreme Court case is compelling in that regard. Citing that is in no, way, shape or form an endorsement of the result in <i>Dred Scott</i>.<br /><br />I would also point out that as we go for incorporation, another case in which we'll be looking at is <i>Cruikshank</i>, which is another despicable decision that gutted the privileges and immunities clause which was intended to protect the civil rights of freed blacks after the civil war.<br /><br />The Courts have an opportunity to overturn that decision with <i>McDonald v. City of Chicago</i>. Let's hope they do. I should note that <i>Scott</i> was never formally overturned by the Supreme Court, but was largely made invalid by constitutional amendment. Let's hope it doesn't take that to get rid of <i>Cruikshank</i>.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14648225987293475835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-56752931184218191632009-10-15T19:23:36.235+02:002009-10-15T19:23:36.235+02:00Dred Scott says nothing about the nature of the ri...Dred Scott says nothing about the nature of the right: only that property does not have rights.<br /><br />The section you mention is called the "parade of horribles" as to the feared results of granting Mr. Scott's petition. Not a good section to quote.<br /><br />It's quite obvious that you have no idea what that meant and what a poor choice it was to use that section.<br /><br />BTW, thanks for the compliment! Too bad you don't read my blog.Laci the Chinese Crestedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07371541369012938298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-73742134715042031452009-10-15T19:22:19.697+02:002009-10-15T19:22:19.697+02:00Mike W., I've always had difficulty understand...Mike W., I've always had difficulty understanding your use of the word "bigotry" in reference to my disagreeing with you on gun issues. I think it's another of the many spinning, exaggerating little tricks you use rather than argue the issues.<br /><br />Maybe this is what Laci picked up on too. <i>"BTW, I am not sure what point you are making in the post you cite, but if you find it bigotry.<br /><br />Well, that's your opinion."</i>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.com