tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post1498583887176966821..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Kids and GunsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-26709410999099794992009-02-27T16:18:00.000+01:002009-02-27T16:18:00.000+01:00Mike,Let's say it is 100,000 defensive gun uses. N...Mike,<BR/><BR/>Let's say it is 100,000 defensive gun uses. No bullying no abuse - which are against the law.<BR/><BR/>Research Russ Martin, a former DJ here in Dallas to see what happens if a person brandishes a firearms during a domestic issue.<BR/><BR/>Let's say it is 100,000 or what every number exactly matches the number of crimes.<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't that show if you remove the firearms, crime would DOUBLE?<BR/><BR/>Even if crime didn't double, do you have any doubt that <B>some</B> crime is prevented by a person having a firearm?<BR/><BR/>Take away that firearm and crime increases, right?<BR/><BR/>Isn't the goal to decrease crime and violence, not increase it?Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-77805102173227165122009-02-27T11:13:00.000+01:002009-02-27T11:13:00.000+01:00I mentioned it on a more recent thread, but I'll e...I mentioned it on a more recent thread, but I'll elaborate here. I must admit to not paying enough attention because I thought we all really did agree on the ratio between defensive and offensive use of guns.<BR/><BR/>In looking at it this morning, I can tell you there's rarely been a case in which a bigger grain of salt is needed than when reading about all the supposed defensive incidents. <BR/><BR/>The 90-year-old lady we discussed yesterday, is that one? What about all those times the "defensive" use is really one of abuse or bullying or outright aggression? I suppose you count all those too. Or are you saying only cops do that, not gun owners?<BR/><BR/>The point is, the stats on killed and wounded are hard verifiable numbers, while these so-called defensive acts are a bit more nebulous and subjective. <BR/><BR/>Besides, didn't Weer'd recently quote the FBI saying that there were 100,000? (See I am paying attention once in a while). Well, that number which is a far cry from some of the other nonsense going around the internet, and a much more realistic one, is more or less about the same as the Brady numbers for killed and wounded.<BR/><BR/>So where's that leave us?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-26575575612098956932009-02-26T14:51:00.000+01:002009-02-26T14:51:00.000+01:00Notice how he didn't even bother to address the is...Notice how he didn't even bother to address the issue of defensive gun use, or even claims we've made that might be untrue or hyperbolic.<BR/><BR/>Mike knows what he's doing, he knows he's wrong, and he's marking time and avoiding anything that might shed light on any real issues.<BR/><BR/>Low.Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-62471484242901035232009-02-26T14:07:00.000+01:002009-02-26T14:07:00.000+01:00we say --- weerd and myself at the very least --- ...we say --- weerd and myself at the very least --- that defensive firearms use outweighs criminal use in the USA. we're convinced of this based on the data we've seen.<BR/><BR/>you say you don't think anybody believes this. by implication (and a pretty strong one), that <I>we</I> don't believe it.<BR/><BR/>in other words, you think we're saying things we think are false, or at least unfounded --- even as we keep pointing out the evidence.<BR/><BR/>how is that not a direct implication that you think we're lying?<BR/><BR/>(oh, yeah, and blogger won't take myopenid.com again today. that's because blogger sucks <I>ass.</I>)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-66597988817611808832009-02-26T12:58:00.000+01:002009-02-26T12:58:00.000+01:00Nomen said, "why do you think we lie about that?wh...Nomen said, <I>"why do you think we lie about that?<BR/><BR/>why are you surprised that we take offense at you calling us liars without presenting any sort of evidence that we are?"</I><BR/><BR/>As far as I remember, only Weer'd has called people "liars" around here. I've made a point of avoiding that word because it's too inflammatory and counterproductive to discussion. <BR/><BR/>I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt and thinking of some of these remarks as spinning, exaggeration, nuancing, and of course good old hyperbole.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-50359569485640383402009-02-25T14:59:00.000+01:002009-02-25T14:59:00.000+01:00Are you saying that defensive use of guns is more ...<I>Are you saying that defensive use of guns is more common than offensive? I don't think anybody believes that, Weer'd, not you and not the guys who spend their days compiling those stories.</I><BR/><BR/>why do you think we lie about that?<BR/><BR/>why are you surprised that we take offense at you calling us liars without presenting any sort of evidence that we are?<BR/><BR/>why <I>do</I> you call us liars when you have no evidence to show that we are? do you really think that will accomplish anything other than to smear mud on your own reputation?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-4878569486502830572009-02-25T14:32:00.000+01:002009-02-25T14:32:00.000+01:00"Weer'd, you're becoming a real drag with your spi..."Weer'd, you're becoming a real drag with your spinning and twisting and your use of obfuscation and most of all with your illogical conclusions."<BR/><BR/>Ironic, since you didn't actually answer my question in any way. And that was the 3rd time I've asked it.<BR/><BR/>"Are you saying that defensive use of guns is more common than offensive? I don't think anybody believes that, Weer'd, not you and not the guys who spend their days compiling those stories. Yet, here you are throwing it out like you've said it many times and I keep "dismissing" it, and then you conclude that I don't care about violent crime. "<BR/><BR/>More Irony, as I have presented numbers (you have presented none), and Yes indeed we ALL belive that...why because it's TRUE.<BR/><BR/>Also note again that you only ranted at my question, but didn't actually address it.<BR/><BR/>This post was very good, as you presented data, logic, and studies. I refute that, but at least we're discussing the issue outside of subjective emotions.<BR/><BR/>I said I wouldn't use this post as a sole reason to dismiss my claims that you have crossed over to the sinister side of the gun-ban group because it didn't show a greater trend.<BR/><BR/>These badgering answers are showing this wonderful post as an anomaly of somebody who would prefer the world to be more ignorant than knowledgable.<BR/><BR/>So AGAIN Mke, Why do you care so much about guns?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Maybe you'll answer it this time....I have my doubts.Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-74977057436325705072009-02-25T13:27:00.000+01:002009-02-25T13:27:00.000+01:00So, I dismiss pertinent information, out of hand, ...So, I dismiss pertinent information, out of hand, and I offer zero support. Is that right, Weer'd? <BR/><BR/>I said I don't want to discuss accidental deaths of kids (I don't think I said exactly that, but...) so that means I don't care about that? <BR/><BR/>You said, <I>"We point out that defense is more common than offense, and that offense is more often carried out with a non-gun weapon. You dismiss that...so how can you care about violent crime?"</I><BR/><BR/>Are you saying that defensive use of guns is more common than offensive? I don't think anybody believes that, Weer'd, not you and not the guys who spend their days compiling those stories. Yet, here you are throwing it out like you've said it many times and I keep "dismissing" it, and then you conclude that I don't care about violent crime. <BR/><BR/>Weer'd, you're becoming a real drag with your spinning and twisting and your use of obfuscation and most of all with your illogical conclusions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-75597503885205099342009-02-24T12:34:00.000+01:002009-02-24T12:34:00.000+01:00No psychology, Mike. Confusion. You talk about M...No psychology, Mike. Confusion. You talk about Murder with guns, we mention that other tools are more common...you say you don't want to talk about those....so how can you care about murder?<BR/><BR/>You talk about childhood accidental death and guns, we point out that children who live in gun owning home (where the gun isn't stored in a completely useless state) who die from gunfire is a number many times less than 1% of the case. And that things like drowning, suffocation, poison, and auto accidents kill vastly more children. You say you don't want to talk about those things...so how can you care about accidental death?<BR/><BR/>You say that defensive gun use is exceedingly rare when compared to violent crime with guns. We show you numbers, statistics and news stories where people defended their lives with guns. You dismiss them out-of-hand with no support to your side. We point out that defense is more common than offense, and that offense is more often carried out with a non-gun weapon. You dismiss that...so how can you care about violent crime?<BR/>You talk about the "Flow" of guns...we point out that that number is exceedingly small, and use numbers that are very sympathetic to your cause. You dismiss those with zero support...so how can you actually believe your theory?<BR/><BR/><BR/>What I'm saying, Mike, is that I care about gun crimes, I care about violent crime, I care about accidental death, I care about illegal transfers of firearms.<BR/>Because of this I care for the rights of good people to own guns, and have them close at hand if they so desire...and I'll show you numbers, studies, and stories all day to support this, because numbers, studies and Stories are why I changed my mind on this issue in the first damn place.<BR/><BR/>You don't want to discuss any of the above issues...but you do want to discuss guns, and the restrictions of them (often referencing one of the above issues you don't want to discuss).<BR/><BR/>So how can this be? You appear to care about guns a great deal, but I can't figure out why.<BR/><BR/>Can you help me?Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-62592697176396545462009-02-24T10:22:00.000+01:002009-02-24T10:22:00.000+01:00"Why guns?" Weer'd keeps asking. Well, the truth ..."Why guns?" Weer'd keeps asking. Well, the truth is I'm much more passionate about the death penalty. It's only since I started talking to you guys that I became so interested in guns. You brought it out of me.<BR/><BR/>What's your point, Weer'd? Are you getting back into that pseudo-psychology again? I thought you gave that up along with the mind reading.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-17299694060747155102009-02-23T15:07:00.000+01:002009-02-23T15:07:00.000+01:00Mike,I agree with Weer'd. You say that defensive g...Mike,<BR/><BR/>I agree with Weer'd. <B>You</B> say that defensive gun uses don't outweigh the gun crimes but don't provide any evidence.<BR/><BR/>I am starting to get the idea that you simply want to consider firearms in isolation from everything else.<BR/><BR/>The impression is of a man who has put blinders on to every other consideration or factor but firearms. Sorry but the world doesn't work that way, nothing exists in isolation.<BR/><BR/>You said this on another post:<BR/><I>How many messed up family situations are there out there, many of whom are exercising their 2nd Amendment rights too. That's the problem.</I><BR/><BR/>So, instead of trying to get the firearms out of the messed up family situation, why not address the messed up family situations?<BR/><BR/>Let's focus on education. Wouldn't getting kids through high school, into college or a tech school be more of a benefit then taking away firearms? Give people the education needed to start their own businesses besides drug dealing and see what happens to the rate of violence - even gun violence.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Let's focus on family. Reverse the trend of single parent families, absentee fathers and neglectful mothers. Be it because they are working too many hours, involved in drugs or alcohol, or simply not there; study after study has shown parents are some of the best ways of preventing kids from getting involved in crime.<BR/><BR/>Let's focus on illegal drugs. Remove the profit margin and the incentive to commit crime from using drugs. Control the drug trade and watch the violence levels fall. <BR/><BR/>Let's focus on the justice system. Get rid of the disparity in sentencing for certain drugs, get rid of mandatory sentencing. Fix the problems with innocent people going to jail. Fix the fact that people come out of jail with NO more education or skills then they went in with. Wouldn't that go a along way to reducing crime?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Let's focus on the causes of poverty...those things above and see if that doesn't reduce the crime rate. If it doesn't reduce the crime rate, it will at least make the crimes happen on a grander scale....think of the difference between someone running a 3 card monte game and Madoff's Ponzi scheme. (that was a joke).<BR/><BR/><BR/>Stop looking at the issue in isolation Mike, Consider that the vaunted "flow of guns" is less then that of drunk driving, that fewer kids die from firearm accidents then they do from drowning.<BR/><BR/>Look at the whole picture Mike, including the fact that the right to keep and bear arms is one that will not be given up without a fight. Are you willing to start that fight?Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-91915914026517861862009-02-23T15:03:00.000+01:002009-02-23T15:03:00.000+01:00I say, do the defensive gun incidents outnumber th...<I>I say, do the defensive gun incidents outnumber the incidents of gun violence? No, not by a mile.</I><BR/><BR/>and i say you're pulling that assertion straight out of your nether regions, with neither evidence or support for it anywhere to be had. now, <I>please</I> prove me wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-3046375251759393142009-02-23T12:47:00.000+01:002009-02-23T12:47:00.000+01:00You were good enugh to provide us with some number...You were good enugh to provide us with some numbers in this post. Care to provide some numbers to refute that? Otherwise you're speculating in the face of presented data.<BR/><BR/>Still, why Guns, Mike? I'm curious given your string of comments why you're concerned about them at all.Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-7479728288862034862009-02-23T12:32:00.000+01:002009-02-23T12:32:00.000+01:00Bob said, "Read the blog, read the newspapers and ...Bob said, <I>"Read the blog, read the newspapers and see that defensive gun uses are a daily occurrence." </I><BR/><BR/>I say, do the defensive gun incidents outnumber the incidents of gun violence? No, not by a mile.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-62588235321627873092009-02-23T07:02:00.000+01:002009-02-23T07:02:00.000+01:00"My opinion is, I don't care how many households t..."My opinion is, I don't care how many households there are with guns and kids, for me that 500 is way too many. How about you?"<BR/><BR/>Yes, those 500 deaths are sad, but they have nothing to do with me. I have NO obligation to change my behavior or concede my natural and constitutional rights because a few hundred children die each year from gun deaths.<BR/><BR/>Liberty involves risk Mike. I will not give up my rights in the name of "public safety" nor compromise those rights away "for the children."<BR/><BR/>I have to say I'm glad to see some honesty from you in your interpretation of the numbers. (I.E. most are gang / crime related)<BR/><BR/>Weer'd - I like this comment you made.<BR/><BR/>"But only 39% of these families keep their firearms locked, unloaded, and separate from ammunition as recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics."<BR/><BR/>I'd say the other 61% are smart enough not to listen to Pediatricians for advice on guns. I mean hell, I don't go to my dentist for advice on car repair.<BR/><BR/>Most folks keep a gun at home for defensive purposes. Keeping it locked in the manner recommended above makes it totally useless for that purpose.Mike W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03425962910696301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-5976490934779991962009-02-22T22:17:00.000+01:002009-02-22T22:17:00.000+01:00So what do you care about Guns for, Mike?Honest qu...So what do you care about Guns for, Mike?<BR/><BR/>Honest question. I'm totally confused now.Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-8982056091113140982009-02-22T22:16:00.000+01:002009-02-22T22:16:00.000+01:00Mike,Yes, Bob, you have all those rights. Now, if ...Mike,<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Yes, Bob, you have all those rights. </I><BR/><BR/>Now, if I have those rights; what gives you or anyone else the right to interfere with me exercising those said rights?<BR/><BR/>Many states regulate and control even less then lethal methods such as TASERS, Pepper Spray, even knives. Why add more?<BR/><BR/>If I misuse my firearms, then I answer to the existing laws. <BR/>If I sell or give my firearms to prohibited people, I answer to the existing laws.<BR/><BR/>Name an issue with firearms and there is already an existing law to cover it, right?<BR/><BR/>So what does more laws, more restrictions do but interfere with my right to defend my life?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Maybe it isn't firearms that is the issue, but simply control.Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-49515981549002675162009-02-22T21:54:00.000+01:002009-02-22T21:54:00.000+01:00The 500 was a hard statistic of dead kids.and 305,...<I>The 500 was a hard statistic of dead kids.</I><BR/><BR/>and 305,872,493 is a hard statistic of living people. see, i can quote <I>even bigger</I> numbers than you! but absolute numbers don't really mean much; <I>rates</I> mean more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-42802646316336191842009-02-22T21:20:00.000+01:002009-02-22T21:20:00.000+01:00Mike,Would you say that defensive gun uses stop 50...Mike,<BR/><BR/>Would you say that defensive gun uses stop 500 rapes a year?<BR/><BR/>Would you say that defensive gun uses stop 500 assaults a year?<BR/><BR/>How about home invasions? Car Thefts? Muggings? Robberies?<BR/><BR/>How many lives have to be saved for firearms to be acceptable?<BR/><BR/><BR/>How many stories like this from Clayton Cramer's Civilian Gun Self Defense blog do you need to see?<BR/>Yakima, Washington<BR/><BR/><I>From the January 22, 2009 Tri-City Herald:<BR/><BR/> YAKIMA -- A robbery suspect was shot dead by an armed civilian late Monday, the first incident of justifiable homicide city police said they could recall in recent memory.<BR/><BR/> Franklin McWain, 33, died at a hospital from multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. An autopsy was performed Tuesday.<BR/><BR/> A police news release said the shooting occurred in the 800 block of North Second Street about 11 p.m. Monday.<BR/><BR/> According to the release, a 27-year-old Yakima man told officers he was waiting outside a residence for a friend when he was approached by McWain.<BR/><BR/> The man, identified as Michael Valadez, 27, said McWain struck him on the head with a stick and demanded money. Valadez told police he was struck several more times before firing two shots at McWain. Valadez had a valid concealed weapons permit.</I><BR/><BR/><I>Ferris, Texas<BR/><BR/>From the February 7, 2009 Waxahachie (Tex.) Daily Light:<BR/><BR/> FERRIS – The Ellis County Sheriff’s Office is investigating a shooting incident that occurred before noon in the 200 block of Newton Road near Ferris.<BR/><BR/> Sheriff Johnny Brown said the homeowners were in the process of moving when they returned to the residence to pick up another load of belongings. En route, they observed two male suspects coming out of the residence.<BR/><BR/> As the two suspects went to drive away in an SUV later identified by authorities as stolen, the male homeowner exited his pickup to ask them what they were doing.<BR/><BR/> The suspect vehicle then struck the homeowner’s pickup and the homeowner, who suffered slight injuries.<BR/><BR/> “The homeowner opened fire on them at that point,” Brown said.<BR/><BR/> The suspect vehicle then struck another vehicle that the homeowner’s wife had exited before going out into a field and coming to a stop.<BR/><BR/> “The passenger got out and ran. The driver-suspect was transported by air ambulance with gunshot wounds,” Brown said.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Read the blog, read the newspapers and see that defensive gun uses are a daily occurrence. <BR/><BR/>How many people have to use firearms to save their lives, their properties before stop trying to take away that right?Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-48146142568682174692009-02-22T20:46:00.000+01:002009-02-22T20:46:00.000+01:00Weer'd, The 500 to 10,000 or whatever that wild ra...Weer'd, The 500 to 10,000 or whatever that wild ratio you came up with is bogus. The 500 was a hard statistic of dead kids. Your number started out as a wildly high figure of defensive gun incidents, one which I don't believe for a minute. Talk about needing to take stats with a grain of salt, this was a great example. Then you figured how many MIGHT have resulted in death if the defensive shooter had not been armed. Too much guess work for any kind of comparison. But what you come up with is not just children under 15, which is what you would have needed to compare to the 500, it's men women and children who MIGHT have been killed, right?<BR/><BR/>Now, as poor an example as that was, I understand your point. It's the same one we've been looking at for months. Do the defensive gun incidents make up for the violent gun crime? I say no.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-34946806632688815822009-02-22T19:31:00.000+01:002009-02-22T19:31:00.000+01:00Oh I also forgot that you don't care about murder ...Oh I also forgot that you don't care about murder rates either, as 90% of murders don't use guns.<BR/><BR/>So why are guns the big deal, Mike?<BR/><BR/>On the other hand I care about the above issues, Mike, and because of this among many other actions I take, I keep guns in my home and on my person.Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-2754678031348488602009-02-22T19:13:00.000+01:002009-02-22T19:13:00.000+01:00"My problem is with the guns."Why? You've just s..."My problem is with the guns."<BR/><BR/>Why? You've just said in this thread alone you don't care about youth deaths (ie: you choose to talk about guns killing children, but not swimming pools, auto accidents, poisonings, suffocation, drowning ect that are far more prevalent and dangerous than guns)<BR/><BR/>You don't ever address or acknowledge the lives saved by guns, and you have admitted people have a right to defend their lives, and even admit you would defend your own family's lives if they were threatned.<BR/><BR/>So why exactly do you have a problem with lawfully held guns? (I know we see eye-to-eye with unlawfully held guns)Weer'd Beardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528978001340070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-13721871670721788602009-02-22T18:57:00.000+01:002009-02-22T18:57:00.000+01:001. Do we have a right to life?2. Do we have a righ...1. Do we have a right to life?<BR/><BR/>2. Do we have a right to survive?<BR/><BR/>3. Do we have a right to defend ourselves?<BR/><BR/>4. Do we have a right to use tools to defend ourselves?<BR/><BR/>Yes, Bob, you have all those rights. <BR/><BR/>You could do us all a favor and stop asking such obvious and rhetorical questions and then complaining so much about my not answering them.<BR/><BR/>My problem is with the guns. If you think your building up to a slick and winning argument by getting me to agree to the fourth right and then switch "tool" for "gun," I think that's just silly. We're way beyond that, aren't we?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-77173139490759614212009-02-22T17:45:00.000+01:002009-02-22T17:45:00.000+01:00Microdot,I had common sense enough to know not to ...Microdot,<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>I had common sense enough to know not to point my air rifle at something I could damage or hurt.</I><BR/><BR/>Having been a Scout leader for many years, I can confirm that many kids do have that common sense. And the training, the instruction you received reinforced that common sense for you and taught others the sense of that idea. <BR/><BR/><I><B>RULE 2 NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY</B></I><BR/><BR/>Sound familiar, probably heard a variation of it from your ADULT leaders....or would you rather kids learn how to handle firearms from other kids?<BR/><BR/><I>I never was compelled to stab someone with my scout knife, I learned to respect the knife and tools.</I><BR/><BR/>I would bet one of the ways you learned to respect a knife was by using it. Not by hearing horror stories, but by learning it is a tool that you can control. Again, common sense was reinforced by training and instructions from your adult leaders, correct?<BR/>Maybe from seeing someone make a mistake and get corrected also?<BR/><BR/>But it was actually handling a knife, not learning that knives could be dangerous and having all the knives in your house removed as Mike is suggesting, right?<BR/><BR/>This is reality also - <A HREF="http://blog.robballen.com/archive/2008/02/07/Brimming-with-pride.aspx" REL="nofollow">Brimming with pride</A> <BR/><I>...Anyway, I was working on pulling it apart when <B>I heard my oldest daughter yell "Daddy! I found a gun!!! I'm leaving the room!" </B>I almost broke my leg going to check it out. I was scared that I had inadvertently left the shotgun or my carry piece on the bed. <B>Luckily for me, it was just the gun case for the .22, but she knew enough to not get near it.</B> There is so much pride in me right now that I wanted to share with all of you because there's a very, very important lesson here.<BR/><BR/><B>Even if you hate guns and think they should be wiped off the face of the Earth, you should teach your children what to do if they find one. Even at only 5 years old my daughter knew not to touch what she thought was a gun. The very first thing she did was tell an adult. The next thing she did was leave the room. Would your child do the same?</B><BR/><BR/>Your children should know this. It should be repeated to them every time you think about it. If you're a gun owner, make sure you sit with your sons and / or daughters and let them see your firearms when you clean them. There is nothing wrong with obsessing over safety with them because as this example shows, it will take hold in their little minds....</I><BR/><BR/>Want to declutter the issue Microdot? It is simple.<BR/><BR/>Do we have a right to life?<BR/>Do we have a right to survive<BR/>Do we have a right to defend our lives, our family, our property?<BR/>Do we have a right to keep and bear arms?<BR/><BR/>I'm tired of hearing people mealy-mouth the issue and say "yes, you have a right to keep and bear arms but we are going to impose so many restrictions it is impractical or financially prohibitive for most people to exercise it".<BR/><BR/>When you or anyone else starts to impose the same restrictions on your right to free speech, the right to assemble, the right to worship or not as you choose; then come back and talk to me about reasonable restrictions.<BR/><BR/>This is getting ridiculous in the lengths that gun banners are going to deny people their basic human rights.Bob S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15882819735831651314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-37441138833218627092009-02-22T17:01:00.000+01:002009-02-22T17:01:00.000+01:00books and theories, instructional pamphlets...cond...<I>books and theories, instructional pamphlets...conditioning programs...all of these things do not begin to address human nature and common sense.</I><BR/><BR/>are you assuming there's some part of human nature that specifically freaks out when handling firearms?<BR/><BR/><I>Sure, when I was a kid, I had an air rifle. I had knives, I was in the Boy Scouts. But I was never in an environment which allowed me access to real guns.</I><BR/><BR/>you sure seem to be assuming firearms are somehow magical and make people freak out who wouldn't otherwise.<BR/><BR/><I>I had common sense enough to know not to point my air rifle at something I could damage or hurt.<BR/>I never was compelled to stab someone with my scout knife, I learned to respect the knife and tools.</I><BR/><BR/>then why would you think you would have acted any less responsibly, been any less safe, with a single-shot .22 rifle?<BR/><BR/>most kids are perfectly safe and responsible with such a firearm, if given appropriate and competent training. same as you should have received before you were allowed that air rifle, or those knives. it's not difficult training; the boy scouts could easily provide it.<BR/><BR/><I>Mike is absolutely right when he talks about the fascination children have with forbidden objects.</I><BR/><BR/>yes, and this is why weerd, bob, and i all want guns to not <B>be</B> forbidden objects to kids. no more than air rifles, pocket knives, drain cleaner, ...<BR/><BR/>you need to teach kids <I>how to deal with</I> such dangers, not just "stay away, that's forbidden". same thing with guns.<BR/><BR/><I>Can you remember being say 7 years old and finding a razor blade?</I><BR/><BR/>"finding"? they weren't hidden away, i knew perfectly well where they were stored. i never played with them, because i knew they could cut me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com