tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post4567192387497243208..comments2024-02-05T03:41:13.688+01:00Comments on Mikeb302000: Gun Used to Kill Newlyweds Was Stolen Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-2073956437891553902013-10-01T15:30:50.865+02:002013-10-01T15:30:50.865+02:00Your side's arguments would demand that we kee...Your side's arguments would demand that we keep going down the slippery slope--after all, no matter how much we reduce deaths, gun thefts, whatever marker we're using, you will argue that you can cut them in half again by getting your way.<br /><br />You even acknowledge that you might want to take things further than your current proposal with your statement about eventually finding a balance.<br /><br />But keep on saying we're lying and exaggerating. It's the only tactic you seem able to rely on.Tennesseannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-9843584055145061072013-10-01T09:26:11.807+02:002013-10-01T09:26:11.807+02:00Your fear of the slippery slope is exaggerated. Th...Your fear of the slippery slope is exaggerated. The speed limit for cars is a good comparison, if I may. It's reduced traffic fatalities but no one's demanding that we lower it to 35 mph, are they?<br /><br />A balance will be found also with gun control vs. the freedom for qualified people to own and use guns. That's what most people want.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-48906612347682171922013-09-30T05:42:52.930+02:002013-09-30T05:42:52.930+02:00An owner who stores his property in his property h...An owner who stores his property in his property has every right to expect that others will leave it alone. You, Mikeb, have no business telling others how to keep their belongings.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-29070338943751034152013-09-29T19:14:59.764+02:002013-09-29T19:14:59.764+02:00And of gun thefts were reduced from 400,000 a year...And of gun thefts were reduced from 400,000 a year to 300,000 a year, you wouldn't call for more enhanced requirements?<br /><br />The above of course ignores the fundamental principle of supply and demand- that thieves will be sure to bring a crow bar (or use the tools that are in the house they just broke into) to be able to feed the black market as prices rise. <br /><br />And what if the entire house is more secure than a box screwed into wood? If one puts bars on the windows and a good aftermarket security bolt, are they exempt from needing to also screw a box to a wall?TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-28214026547688775122013-09-29T08:56:34.594+02:002013-09-29T08:56:34.594+02:00Not all burglars come equipped with crow bars and ...Not all burglars come equipped with crow bars and other tools. Many, perhaps most, are opportunistic thieves who take the path of least resistance. They would be thwarted by just about any kind of safe. They'd grab the jewelry and stereo and beat it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-67883501683126232142013-09-29T08:51:41.032+02:002013-09-29T08:51:41.032+02:00To TS's sarcastic question I'd say theft i...To TS's sarcastic question I'd say theft is already cut in half by the laws against it. Now we need to give gun owners the same motivation to do what they know they ought to do.<br /><br />To Greg's inanity I'd say yes, the thief is the only one responsible for the theft, but the gun owner is the only one responsible for the improper and unsafe storage of the gun.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-77984517041434747322013-09-29T07:20:45.238+02:002013-09-29T07:20:45.238+02:00Aw now come on now Tenn, Mike will never honestly ...Aw now come on now Tenn, Mike will never honestly answer that.<br /><br />The truth is he is a Mr touchy feelie when it comes to criminals.....Thomas Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-36720753227456913092013-09-29T07:16:40.295+02:002013-09-29T07:16:40.295+02:00Ah ah ah Mikey, I am not talking of this verminous...Ah ah ah Mikey, I am not talking of this verminous little sack of excrement that is just now getting the prison sentence that he should have years ago, I am talking about the scumbag that harbored this filth, <br /><br />Shouldn't he be doing hard time in the state "pound him in the ass prison", not "3 to three years in a youth corrections program."<br /><br />sounds like he is getting off easy with an expunged record after 3 years.<br /><br />Thomas Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-44331830718004701532013-09-29T02:56:11.371+02:002013-09-29T02:56:11.371+02:00Since you've said that you want them "con...Since you've said that you want them "constrained by law" to use safes, I guess we're going to call this "Encouragement of Voluntary Safe Storage"?<br /><br /><br />As for your actual point, I proposed language below that might be a way for you to clarify what you mean by safe storage.<br /><br />Having a law such as that might reduce the number of thefts, maybe even by more than half. However, imposing the death penalty for stealing a gun or using it in a crime would also likely reduce gun thefts and gun crimes greatly.<br /><br />I think how we go about fighting crime matters as much as the results. I would oppose the death penalty idea because it is using a severe punishment (in this case the most severe) to punish a less severe crime.<br /><br />The reason I oppose your proposal is that I see the priority as being wrong--changing the focus from the thief who stole property to the owner who just lost his property. If he didn't make it hard to steal his property, whether by not locking up a gun or by not locking his car that was just stolen, the theft has punished him enough for his stupidity. The thief is the one responsible if he uses the gun in a robbery or sells it to another criminal so that he can rob people.<br /><br />I would rather see enhanced penalties for people who steal guns and further enhanced penalties if they sell them to other criminals. (That being said, enhanced within reason--to a level that fits the crime, not exceeds it).Tennesseannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-63731843063877574542013-09-28T21:40:27.564+02:002013-09-28T21:40:27.564+02:00Aren't the thieves constrained by the law?Aren't the thieves constrained by the law?TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-14014585490164037352013-09-28T21:36:52.114+02:002013-09-28T21:36:52.114+02:00And what happens when that doesn't "drast...And what happens when that doesn't "drastically reduce" gun thefts? What I described is as easy to defeat as your average front door.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-29563138885309654122013-09-28T21:36:21.779+02:002013-09-28T21:36:21.779+02:00People have the right to store their legally owned...People have the right to store their legally owned property in any way they see fit. The only person responsible in a theft is the thief.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-57887598906839710502013-09-28T20:25:18.104+02:002013-09-28T20:25:18.104+02:00Unless people are constrained by law to do the rig...Unless people are constrained by law to do the right thing, your encouragements aren't doing enough. That's why a half-a-million guns are stolen a year. A federal law requiring guns to be safely stored in the home might cut that in half. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-51366347168824349752013-09-28T19:04:17.227+02:002013-09-28T19:04:17.227+02:00Mike,
Thanks for answering TS's question. If...Mike,<br /><br />Thanks for answering TS's question. If that is your position, then your model "safe storage" law would need to reflect that in the language, perhaps defining "safe storage" as "storage in any locked container secured to the structure's wall or floor using screws or bolts, or by being built into a wall or floor; also storage within a safe or vault room."<br /><br />I would still have an issue with the principle of charging someone for "making theft too easy," but your proposal would be far more reasonable, might convince more people, and wouldn't be susceptible to challenge as a backdoor way to price poor folk out of the gun market.Tennesseannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-75578091253670581872013-09-28T18:55:41.182+02:002013-09-28T18:55:41.182+02:00Yes he did. I was speculating on the coverage her...Yes he did. I was speculating on the coverage here had the 17 year old been shot when the home owner found him in their house with a gun. Did you not pick that up from the parenthetical?Tennesseannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-48948471239127916672013-09-28T18:53:57.196+02:002013-09-28T18:53:57.196+02:00That's not what I'm arguing against. As I...That's not what I'm arguing against. As I said back in the Safe Storage post, I encourage people to use safes--I oppose your advocacy for laws that hold them responsible for not having whatever a judge, who may be biased, determines to be "good enough" safes.Tennesseannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-74965093832933082512013-09-28T17:28:36.683+02:002013-09-28T17:28:36.683+02:00Here we agree, Mikeb, sort of. He should have bee...Here we agree, Mikeb, sort of. He should have been locked up a long time ago.Greg Camphttp://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-37621491988639342972013-09-28T15:27:46.965+02:002013-09-28T15:27:46.965+02:00No.No.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-90875731869139709272013-09-28T15:26:43.727+02:002013-09-28T15:26:43.727+02:00I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, and I apolog...I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, and I apologize to my bleeding-heart friends, but I think this is an exception to my general rule of not trying kids as adults. This is a bad boy who's had too many chances already. I say, lock him up and throw away the key.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-13749941756264935322013-09-28T15:24:00.917+02:002013-09-28T15:24:00.917+02:00T., I think you're getting mixed up. He wasn&#...T., I think you're getting mixed up. He wasn't shot, he did the shooting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-12403031262843788262013-09-28T15:20:30.167+02:002013-09-28T15:20:30.167+02:00So, are those all good reasons to make it easier f...So, are those all good reasons to make it easier for guys like this to steal guns? Because no safe is 100% impervious to international safe crackers does that mean we should make it easy by keeping the gun in the night stand drawer?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806175370305006933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-63762347437228777302013-09-28T05:33:30.363+02:002013-09-28T05:33:30.363+02:00Numbers came out earlier this year or last saying ...Numbers came out earlier this year or last saying that between 90 and 94% of cases end in pleas (can't remember the exact percentage). There aren't enough Public defenders or prosecutors to give the cases the time they deserve to try them. We'd do better paying more salaries for them than for the guys sitting at the speed traps.Tennesseannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-22080450768474143552013-09-28T03:38:01.208+02:002013-09-28T03:38:01.208+02:00I'm guessing they want him to plead and avoid ...I'm guessing they want him to plead and avoid a trial. As Mikeb has said, the justice system is into constant wheeling and dealing. Getting a plea deal is a sure thing.ssgmarkcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480230040370709682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-71525271353626224292013-09-28T02:17:52.134+02:002013-09-28T02:17:52.134+02:00They could have flipped him and still sent him to ...They could have flipped him and still sent him to three years in an "adult" prison, instead they played all soft and concerned about his juvi status (and since when is 19 not an adult) <br /><br />The prosecutors office should be held to account for crap sentencing...Thomas Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6314891743204395487.post-82315436126579581782013-09-28T00:25:12.111+02:002013-09-28T00:25:12.111+02:00This is the classic case than gun owners use to ta...This is the classic case than gun owners use to talk about self-defense, but you always find a way to put a gun control spin on it, don’t you?<br /><br />Without any information on the theft you are automatically assuming capability on part of the gun owner. As I suspected and noted on the other thread, to you if a gun gets stolen that means it wasn’t stored good enough. I asked you about a specific example, but you didn’t answer (at least as of last time I checked). You said one can mount a small handgun box to the floor or wall. So, I’ll ask again using this scenario: a homeowner has one handgun. She buys a $100 handgun lockbox for storage. She mounts it to the wall next to her bed (screwed into the studs). A thief breaks into her home when she is not there. He walks into the bedroom and sees the box mounted to the wall (a lot easier to spot than if it were hidden). He takes the same crowbar he used to pry the front door open and tears it off the wall. He walks off carrying the gun box, a jewelry box, and a laptop. Should she be charged with your crime of “making a theft too easy”?<br />TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04667036856347626234noreply@blogger.com