As police approached a drug cartel's safe house in northwestern Mexico last May, gunmen inside poured on fire with powerful assault rifles and grenades, killing seven officers whose weapons were no match.It turned out the gun dealer in Phoenix had been doing a brisk business supplying guns destined for south-of-the-border shooters.
Four more lawmen were wounded in the bloodbath and a cache of weapons was seized, including a single AK-47 assault rifle that authorities say was purchased 800 miles away at a Phoenix gun shop and smuggled into Mexico.
George Iknadosian, owner of X-Caliber Guns in Phoenix, is accused of selling guns to two groups of straw buyers when he knew the weapons were going to be smuggled into Mexico. He also was targeted in stings in which he allegedly sold guns to undercover officers posing as straw buyers.
Investigators believe 600 guns sold by Iknadosian ended up in Mexico, most headed to the violent Pacific Coast state of Sinaloa.
Authorities say several have surfaced.
They include: An AK-47 and .38-caliber Super pistol with diamond-encrusted grips found after the Nov. 2 killing of the police chief of the northern state of Sonora as he walked into a hotel about two miles south of the Arizona border.
A .38-caliber Super pistol seized a year ago when Mexican special forces captured a top Sinaloa cartel lieutenant, Alfredo Beltran Leyva, and three members of his security team in Culiacan.
Three assault rifles recovered after patrolling federal police officers were fired upon and responded by killing four gunmen from the Beltran Leyva drug gang on July 2 at a house in Culiacan.
The way I see it, this story covers both definitions of the word "flow." Not only was Iknadosian pumping weapons into Mexico, which is the first kind of "flow," but he himself was presumably a legitimate licensed gun dealer and gun owner himself, that is until he himself "flowed" over to the dark side. That's the second definition.
How frequent is this, do you think?
I say it's too frequent. Imagine all the ones who aren't quite as greedy as this guy, the ones who operate below the radar indefinitely. What I don't understand is why the truly legitimate guys deny that this goes on.
What can be done about these so-called "straw purchases?" Are they similar to the "gun show loophole?" Can't these things be cleaned up?
What's your opinion?
What can be done about this? I'd say exactly what's _being_ done. When guns are used in crimes in Mexico, the local authorities contact US authorities. The serial numbers of the guns are traced to the dealer that sold them, who can tell you who _he_ sold the guns to (dealers in the US are required to record every gun sale, and produce the records for investigators). When a dealer is the source of several of these guns, set up a sting with a simulated straw purchase. Prosecute the lawbreaker.
ReplyDeleteIf you think this isn't enough, then we could do a better job of guarding our borders. If the people involved are already breaking laws against straw sales, straw purchases, gun trafficking, drug trafficking, and murder, the remedy is better enforcement of those laws, not new laws that burden the people _not_ committing those crimes.
It's also probably worth pointing out that the US could shut the Mexican drug cartels down overnight, if it had the political will to reform its drug laws. Our insane prohibition has created the massive profits that allow this war to go on.
It's probably _also_ worth pointing out that any criminal cartel that's using _grenades_ (and "assault rifles", though I suspect the columnist is just confused by the deliberately vague political term "assault weapon") has a source of arms other than the US retail market. Even if you _could_ shut down the availability of guns in this country, you'd likely only change the cartels' preferred source.
Finally (and sorry for the long-winded reply ;) ), this has nothing at all to do with the "gun show loophole". That term refers to legal peer-to-peer private gun transfers in the US, and it doesn't look from the coverage like any such transfers are involved.
"Imagine all the ones who aren't quite as greedy as this guy, the ones who operate below the radar indefinitely. What I don't understand is why the truly legitimate guys deny that this goes on."
ReplyDeleteWe don't. What I'm surprised of is that the ATF claims that 10% of FFLs supply 50+% of crime guns, why the AFT isn't shutting down those shops and putting those assholes in prison.
Mike, read that law review article I posted a few days ago, he goes into great depth of how difficult it it for an FFL to operate under the radar.
The big question is where did the Assault Rifles and the explosives come from.
Not an American gun shop, that's for sure.
Given that the Mexican Government is considered one of the most corrupt in the world, it wouldn't be possible that the Army is selling guns to the cartels for personal gain....
Also how about that ".38-caliber Super pistol" talk. Like somehow it's a "super pistol" when instead we're likely talking a 1911 in .38 Super Automatic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super
The bottom line the ATF is a deeply corrupt and inept organization, responsible enough for their own "Flow"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424082,00.html
And certainly not doing their damn job of shutting down people breaking the damn law!
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/01/28/38-super-really/
ReplyDeleteSebastian picked this up.
His observations are good ones. There's one .38 Super pistol at my gunshop, and it's in the "Antique" case where they stick the super old and super rare guns. I think you can have it for $2,000 (it's one of the early Colts)
The other gunshop I go to has a bigger handgun selection an NO guns in this caliber. I didn't ask if they had ammo for it. I wouldn't be suprised if there was much more than two boxes of ammo in .38 Super between the two stores.
I actually have about 25 rounds of spent .38 Super brass on my desk because I found the brass in the brass bucket on the range and knew someday a friend would mention how he reloads that cartridge and that would make a nice gift.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteYou ask:
What can be done about these so-called "straw purchases?"
We've asked many times and you've not answered, how do you get people to stop breaking the law?
Short of banning firearms completely, I don't see a way and you say you don't want to ban firearms.
So, up to you Sir. How do you stop people from breaking the law?
Remember that it is only a violation of the law on the dealer's part IF (s)he KNOWS it is a straw purchase.
"So, up to you Sir. How do you stop people from breaking the law?"
ReplyDeleteDeath penalty works 100% on that one ; ]
We can't stop people from breaking the law. What we might be able to do though, is to make the availability of firearms so difficult that when they do break the law, it's less deadly.
ReplyDeleteOkay Mike,
ReplyDeleteHow do we do that? How do we make the make the availability of firearms so difficult that when they do break the law, it's less deadly.
I am sure what you mean by that but let's go with it.
How do you still keep firearms available for the law abiding but make the availability so difficult to get for the law breaking?
Or have you given up on letting the law abiding keep their firearms?
Details man, the devil is in the details. Let's hear some ideas
Or how do you keep a 200lb Rapist from raping a 100lb woman?
ReplyDeleteHow do you keep a man with a pickup truck and a knife from being "less Deadly"
http://www.necn.com/Boston/Nation/7-killed-in-Japan-stabbing-spree/1212950360.html
I understand the angle you're attempting, but I think you're not grasping many of the variables in the equation.
How to do it? We're still working on that. What would help is if some of you gun guys would pitch in with some ideas. You know better than the rest of us what could be done, but you resist every step of the way, I guess, because you're afraid if you give in to some small thing, or admit anything at all, you'll be closer to total confiscation of your arsenals by jack-booted secret police. Sometimes you guys sound absolutely paranoid.
ReplyDeleteJesus, Mike, not this drivel again.
ReplyDeleteDo you keep forgetting our answer?
Unrestrict access to Conceal carry and effective firearms to lawful citizens.
Punish unlawful citizens in possession of illegal weapons, and those who knowingly supply them.
Stricter penalties for those committing violent crimes (tool independent).
"I guess, because you're afraid if you give in to some small thing, or admit anything at all, you'll be closer to total confiscation of your arsenals by jack-booted secret police. Sometimes you guys sound absolutely paranoid."
Or maybe we've given plenty already with quite consistent results. We have also demonstrated those results. You deferring the question to us, and then ignoring our answer.
As an FFL holder the ATF mails me a copy of the current law books.
There are two of them, the State and the Federal.
The Federal Book is 243 pages long, the state book is 468 pages.
The states with the longest entries in the State book have some of the highest crime (note those laws almost always limit "Access to Firearms"
Your repetition of "I don't know, I just think guns should be banned"
Is nothing short of willful ignorance.
Why do you continue with this?
Who really cares what happens in Mexico anyway? That's their problem. When they take steps to stop the flow of drugs and millions of criminals across our borders, then we can stop the one or two gun dealers that are sending a couple of semi-auto rifles down there.
ReplyDeleteMike
ReplyDeleteYou want some answers from us. How about we start with a 3%er answer and work out middle grounds from there.
Let's repeal every current firearm law on the books. Then once that is done we can start meeting in the middle some place.
Over 200 years of gun control laws on the books and you say are unwilling to give on the small things. Sorry but you are either ignorant of what you talk about or a complete schmuck.
you'll be closer to total confiscation of your arsenals by jack-booted secret police.
You had your ass handed to you on a silver platter at Firehand's Irons in the Fire blog when you made the same silly statement, didn't you Mike?
It is not far fetched to consider we may loose everything when there are documented attempts to do exactly that.
So, repeal every law on the books. Let's have people walking around with fully automatic weapons, houses with crew served weapons out front. High explosives being delivered by Fed-Ex and UPS daily.
Then we can talk about where to go from there. Perhaps that list will tell you how far we've gone on gun control....but it is never enough for gun grabbers.
Start there. That is my first idea, then we can move to implementing new laws.
Step #1, if you are not in jail, awaiting to go to jail, or on probation; your right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed.
Step #2, unless the building or area has to do with the criminal system process of sending people to jail all ares of the government shall be open to carrying of firearms. If a government flunky is afraid of making laws, regulations and rulings because of what armed citizens might do, it will be a good thing. Make them think twice.
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert Heinlein
Step#3 All rules, laws and regulations must be universal across the country.
So, are you willing to actually consider meeting in the middle or should start with the massive amounts of laws already on the books as described by Weer'd?
The good news is that the jackbooted thugs who went after Iknadosian got the judicial smack in the face they so richly deserved.
ReplyDeleteJudge Gottsfield is to be commended.