Friday, October 10, 2008

Road Rage - Pistol Drawn

How rare is it?

On the Philly Dot Com site the other day we can read the report of an Upper Darby man who drew down on a woman for honking the horn at him.

A 24-year-old Upper Darby man, infuriated that a woman had honked at him in an intersection, pulled a gun on her and her 2-year-old daughter and said, "You're dead," police said yesterday.

Deaone McNeal, of the 1600 block of Garrett Road, was arrested near his home Saturday after the victim called 911 from her car, Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood said. McNeal denied having a gun, but when police searched his vehicle, Chitwood said, they found a .45-caliber, semiautomatic pistol loaded with 16 hollow-point bullets.

Police also found McNeal's 7-year-old daughter terrified in the backseat, Chitwood said.

McNeal was granted a permit in January to carry a concealed weapon, Chitwood said. McNeal stated self-defense as his reason for needing the permit.

The article goes on to recount another incident in which a driver was actually shot. Maybe it's not as rare as some people say. It makes me wonder about the wisdom of allowing certain people to carry guns. What gets me even more, is the way responsible gun owners seem to delineate between themselves and the irresponsible ones, the same way they do between the good guys and the bad guys.

Isn't it true that in any large group, take for example, gun owners, a certain percentage will have problems like any other group? What do you propose we do about that? I put the question to the gun proponents. I personally do not favor gun bans, but I also don't favor gun folks talking like this is not their problem. I say it is.

What's your opinion.


  1. Mike,

    When gun owners talk about the different gun owners, I think the majority differentiate between those that have legally purchased and own their firearms and those who didn't; e.g. gang bangers, drug dealers etc.

    Does incidents like this happen, yes. I've never denied it and I don't think any of the other gun owners on the blog have either. What we do say is that for the most part, the vast majority of legitimate gun owners are law abiding. Want me to give you the link to the Texas Department of Public Safety's website?

    The DPS tracks crimes committed by licensed concealed carry gun owners, its a very small percentage of the whole.

    Consider the agenda the left stream media has when you look at reports like this. This was one shooting, most shootings don't get covered; much less the rapes, robberies, thefts, assaults, etc. Why? Because the newspapers want to push an anti-gun agenda. Demonizing gun owners by publicizing the rare occurrence makes the problem seem worse.

    65 million handguns and the best the media can come up with is the random occasional idiot that does discredit gun owners.

    How many people were arrested for driving drunk that same day? Care to come up with a way to prevent those idiots from owning cars?

    So, what should we do?
    Arrest the jerks, throw them in jail and make sure everyone knows about it.

    By the way, where is your compassion, your concern for this misguided, probably mentally deficient gun owner? You stand up for murderers, rapists but want to throw this guy and others under the bus.

    Maybe we should have a treatment program? Make sure he's treated humanely and with respect, right?

  2. This guy should be charged with Criminal threat. That's a Felony everywhere. Bye-Bye Permit, Bye-bye guns FOREVER.

    The system works.

    On a side note, I'm sad to see Mike Chitwood is still govening law enforcement agencies. He was Cheif of Portland Maine when I lived there. He cost the town a HUGE amount of money when he illigally confiscated a gun legally carried by a resident in a park. Also the number of Police Burtality settelments are pretty scary that happened under him. I'm sure lots of them were thugs getting lawyered up....but the number was wayy to high for them all to be legal hoaxes.

    Back on topic: this is an interesting case. This prick needed to have a clean background and no violence in his past to get the permit, and get the gun. How do you propose we could have prevented this? There was nothing on the books that could be used to say he was a risky person. We get down to "Ban all guns to prevent less than 1% of being jerks)

    Nope, best way is Bob's way. Take this dick's guns away from him, prohibit him from EVER legally holding a gun again, and let him have a vacation in Jail for the violent act he committed.

    Agree or disagree, Mike?


    I may have mentioned this before.

    Recently a New Orleans female cop did something similar while picking up her child from school, menacing another parent. I think we need to outlaw cops or at least require some form of registration.

    Was the victim of this road rage incident safer because she didn't have a gun? Maybe she should have had a gun.

    I was in Joburg and a taxi driver cut us off in traffic and waved menacingly with a .38 revolver at us from his cab. My friend Chris waved back with a R-4 honest to god assault rifle of a select-fire nature (not one of those things anti-gun people like to call assault weapons). The cab driver decided to slam on his brakes and swerved to take a side street and menace somebody else. Another column C incident in Thomas' life.

  4. Might add...Road rage incidents of this nature never happen in the part of Texas I live in because everybody is (rightly) assumed to be armed, all the way down to the harmless looking grannies.

  5. Actually I do have empathy for the guy. And I show him the respect he deserves by not calling him names or otherwise dehumanizing him. This is what I often object to in the capital murder cases, but it applies here too.

    My post was directed at you gun owners, though. I wanted to know if you feel any kinship for him or any responsibility for what he did, or do we just cast him into the outer darkness with the gang members and other misfits?

  6. Mike,

    I would suggest you sign up for or at least read the forums at "The High Road" or "The Firing Line". You'll find constant criticism of folks like this on those sites and many others.

    Want to see how much gun owners care; check out some of the gun blogs about the open carry debate.
    Gun owners are very aware of the need to call down those that misbehave. I find it ironic that just about any negative event involving a gun makes the news but the thousands of defensive uses of firearms doesn't.

    Do you drive? Do you drink? Do you feel kinship with those that drink and drive, cause accidents? How about the delineation between good drivers and bad drivers, etc.

    I still see you focused on the gun, not the crimes. Pick any city and find the crime stats for that city....I'll bet money that the non-firearm crime, heck non-firearm violent crime (assault, robbery, rapes, etc) greatly out number the firearm related crime. Now review that cities newspapers and what do you see the focus to be, firearms perhaps?

  7. "Actually I do have empathy for the guy. And I show him the respect he deserves by not calling him names or otherwise dehumanizing him. "

    Ok, Mike, you're a great guy, but this display REALLY disgusts me.

    What respect and empathy does he deserve? AND WHY???

    Seriously, do you know how many times I was cut off in traffic I was cut off just this morning? People honking horns at me for refusing to run a red light? General traffic behavior that puts my life and property at risk? Pedestrians walking into speeding traffic half-a-block away from the crosswalk causing me to lock up my breaks?

    All the while I had a gun on me (Just my .38 Today...usally its the .45....and all my social ammo is hollow points)

    Did I get angry? Yep! Did I draw my gun and commit criminal threat? Nope. Was it hard showing such restraint? FUCK NO!

    I know you've been reading JayG's blog, He writes GREAT stories about people who piss him off in Metro-Boston Traffic (the roads suck, the drivers suck more) he's always got a gun on him too. He's also a big mother-fucker who probably could do a LOT of damage without the need of crude tools. Yet he's the of the nicest gentlest guys out there, a loving dad, and a friend.

    To have empathy to somebody with such low intelegence and human sentiment as the above asshole who seemed to have no problem with pulling a piece and threntening (which is just a DUMB use for a gun....when you draw a gun you should draw a gun to shoot it....pulling it just to show it off can ONLY get you in trouble, or get you shot....if you don't have a need to actully USE the gun it should stay in the holster PERIOD) over a damn traffic incident is a great insult to normal humans in general and responcible gun owners spesifically.

    What Gives, Mike? Do you somehow think that if you had a gun you'd pull it on somebody? I've heard Rome's traffice is some of the worst in the world, but seriously, do you think that's rational?

  8. I think it's probably best that I don't have a gun, especially when driving. God only knows what my body count would be if I did.

    If one more asshole behind me at the stoplight honks his horn in the HALF SECOND it takes me to transfer my foot from the brake to the gas pedal and check my peripheral vision to make sure some other asshole isn't running his red light, I just might buy one after all.

  9. Mikeb, Jeffrey Dahmer owned an electric drill he used to torture people. I bet you own an electric drill. Do you feel a kinship with Jeffrey Dahmer? Empathy perhaps?

    Does that answer your question as to how us gun owners feel about criminal behavior that involves firearms?

  10. Vicki, if that's true, best you don't buy a gun.

    Of course I know you jest. Still having a gun REALLY puts things into perspective. You know that every step you escalate a situation you're closer to having to draw your gun.

    Once you realize that it becomes pretty darn easy to let the asshole honk away and go on his merry.

    Almost had a damn POSTAL truck run me off the road today. Man that was horrible. I had to trow my truck in reverse and back down. Thankfully the guy behind me was smart enough to back down too and no property was damaged, and my No-Lock S&W642 stayed right in the holster.

    Again, I feel no kinship with this asshole, and hope he gets the maximum punishment allowed by law for his crime.

  11. As usual, Tom gives us the clearest and most irrefutable common-sense example with that Jeffrey Dahmer story. Nevertheless, I find it strange that up until a couple days ago, this guy was one of you, a licensed hand-gun owner. Now he's what, a bum who can't be trusted with a gun? Don't you find something strange in that? Among your pals is this type of guy such a rarity?

  12. Mike,

    I noticed that you didn't take my challenge: firearm versus non-firearm crime.

    This guy is "one of us" but he is also "one of you" a law abiding driver. Are you a law abiding driver?

    Of course this guy bothers us, of course he makes all gun owners look bad but this type of incident gains traction because of it's rarity.

    In 2006 Texas convicted 140 CHL holders of various crimes. That sounds like a large amount, right?
    That year, there were 61,539 convictions in total....meaning that the conviction rate for CHL holders was 0.2275%

    Nobody has ever said that gun owners are angels but the alternative is to disarm everyone.

    We can't swaddle the world in cotton and bubble wrap, letting people have liberty and freedom means that things can go wrong but what choice do we have otherwise?

  13. Lots of people doing time for DUI manslaughter were licensed drivers just like I reckon you are, Mikeb, right up until they drunkenly killed somebody with a car.

    Some people cross the line, some people live on the other side of the line, the majority stay law-abiding. Few bad eggs in every bunch and some that go rotten. That's life.

    As we've said before, the benefits of an armed citizenry outweigh the occasional aberration. When that angry insane Joburg cab driver pointed a revolver at myself and a friend, he quickly changed his mind about it when Chris sighted an assault rifle on him and I was preparing to jump out with a rifle on the other side of the truck to cover Chris if need be.

    What if this fellow had pointed his gun at her and she said something like "how about I give you my wallet?" and came out with a .38 snubby and put 5 rounds in him? What if this fellow had expected there was a high probability that either his target or a passerby would ice him? Adds a whole different angle, doesn't it? Bet he'd never have gotten the gun out to begin with.

    Otherwise we're back to pro-actively killing all humans because some of them are going to screw up, even cops and jailers.

  14. "Nevertheless, I find it strange that up until a couple days ago, this guy was one of you, a licensed hand-gun owner. Now he's what, a bum who can't be trusted with a gun? Don't you find something strange in that? Among your pals is this type of guy such a rarity?"

    No, he wasn't like us. Still because of our system that allows all to be innocent until proven guilty, he was innocent until he proved his own guilt, and at that moment he is treated differently by me. Just like how I smile at everybody I pass on the street...until the knife comes out of one of their pockets. Then the person who I was polite to becomes a person I may shoot dead.

    Is there a problem with that? Should I treat everybody like shit simply because 1% of them are total assholes?

    And nobody like this has a right to be my friend.

  15. I just so happen to be the young "black" male who was accused of pulling out a gun in front of my 7 year old daughter, who didn't know I had one. The fat piece of trash who made this accusation is full of shit and still drives up and down small toddler filled streets like a fuckin' maniac.

    I admit, what actually happened, was dumb on my part. I picked up my handheld device which I used at work and threatened to throw it at her to make her back off when she tried to run me off the road. My handheld device resembles a gun if you have tinted windows and are driving at speeds that are illegal where this occurred.

    I am a black male from an urban environment and if I was to threaten someone, I wouldn't say, "you're going to die". This bitch said she read my lips through tinted windows and that's what I mouthed to her.

    She was driving a suped up honda civic with the body kit and racing wheels. She had the spoiler and the loud fart can mufflers. How the fuck could I chase her down in a 94' Ford Aspire stick shift with a 1.3 liter engine and point a gun at her with my window rolled up?

    I drive a Tractor-Trailer for a living. I have an impeccable driving record and am pretty immune to road rage because I'm paid to deal with that shit everyday. People slam on there brakes in front of me in the rain because I drive slow when I'm working. I would never pull a gun on someone for the dumb shit she did.

    Besides, how did she give my license plate number to the cops if I chased her down. Don't believe everything you read. The media and "Dickwood Chitwood" got me chopped and screwed.

  16. Hey Anonymous, Thanks for your story. I'd love to get your opinion on some of our other discussions. Your ideas on the gun issues that we often argue about around here might be valuable input for us.

    Consider that in invitation.

  17. I was the vitcim in this case, and i have seen that a lot of people were bothered by it. I just got over it and started being able to drive down the road it happened on again. The sad thing is that although people think what he did was a felony it wasnt. The highest charge he got was terroistic threats because he had a ccw permit. HE no longer is legally allowed to have a gun but that doesnt change what he did and he was only sentenced to 9-23 months and did not even serve 6. I appreciate everyones supposrt and opinions that have been posted since it has happened but we need to start doing things to change how people get guns and what happens to people when they do stuff like this!

  18. Dear Anonymous victim, Did you read the comment from the black male "offender?"

    He says he didn't even have a gun. What do you say to that?