Do you have any idea of the impact a ban on plastic would have to the world?
Most medical devices and equipment are using plastic; from simple IV bags and tubes, syringes, pace makers, HEART VALVES, and thousands of others.
The fuel economy of cars would plummet drastically, the truth is that plastic makes up the recent savings in fuel economy and cost reduction. Also consider the impact that additional metal mining would have on the environment.
Household conviniences such as Televisions, radios, CD - didn't realize those were "plastic" did you? DVDs, most small electric appliances.
Let's not forget the advances in food storage - Tupperware type storage containers - many bags and cans use liners made out of plastic....more spoilage, higher costs.
Clothing -- polypropylene is the main component in fleece and other such materials. Light weight affordable weather protection would be gone...say hello to more seal hunting and hunting of all sorts. Leather goods would rile the PETA folks ( I might support a limited ban just to get their ire up).
And the list goes on.
There is a sci - fi book about the subject of a bacteria that destroys plastic called Ill Wind by Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason. I recommend you pick it up at your local Barnes and Nobles, it is a very good read.
Did that guy mention, 'Earth Day?' Oh, for shame! An oh-so righteous christian woman pooh-poohed THAT event as godless. Read it on my blog today for some fundy humor.
Bob, If you wrote that post twice, I swear I didn't see the first one. You should know me enough to know that I'm not playing games. I wrote the commenting policy and I'm administering it the best I can. You know the kinds of things I don't allow; I was very clear about that.
I may add one more now though. Any comments that contain, "you accepted his, why didn't you accept mine?" or anything along those lines, will no longer be seen on this blog. You can save that crap for the local kindergarten. Tell them what an enemy of the 1st Amendment I am, and even the 5-year-olds will laugh at you. Oh, sorry, that's Weer'd who said that. I've been confusing you guys lately.
Just the other day, wasn't it you with all the dire, melodramatic predictions about how MikeB would live to regret his new commenting policy, as people such as yourself move on to greener pastures?
When are you planning to start punishing MikeB by depriving him of the benefit of your input? Come on...go Galt, dude!
The reason I ask that question is to understand your thought process and requirements on acceptable behavior.
Isn't that what you want?
Now you are telling me that I can't even ask why one post was printed but another was denied?
I never said you are an enemy of the 1st amendment, your blog your rules.
What I will point out, here or others is the blatant hypocrisy when it appears.
You don't like being called a liar when you lie, you don't like being called names when your behavior warrants such names, now I wonder how much longer will it be before even your hypocrisy can't be mentioned.
See the problem is when you start moderating your comments like you have been, your judgment and values are highlighted by what you allow and don't allow.
In my opinion, by moderating the comments to reject being called a liar, you show you aren't interested in the truth.
Yes, we live in a world full of plastic, but impossible and unrealistic as you might want to portray it, we can easily cut down on our over use and abuse of disposable non recyclable waste. Bob S. would you consider it an unworkable deprivation if the stores you went to stopped giving you a plastic bag for each purchase? Would that inconvenience and and make your life impossible? Of course not. You are just used to having plastic bags with each purchase. If you had to, you would either bring your own reusable bag or just put the stuff you buy in your car. Most of the ways you can cut down on plastic require thought anbd lifestyle change, but most of it is convenience of habit.. Case in point: How long will cds and dvds be around for any way? It took the technology of records a while to go from from metal cylinders to vinyl, but once we discarded vinyl, things moved fast. Now as we are just getting used to cds and dvds as a storage system, we are entering very rapidly into another era all together of data storage.
Yes, granted, plastic will be with us in one form or another for a while, but technology is rapidly advancing, making plastics that are much more structurally permanent or degradable and we are evolving into a non disposable world... with a non disposable economy, I hope.
Bob S. would you consider it an unworkable deprivation if the stores you went to stopped giving you a plastic bag for each purchase?
No, it wouldn't be an "unworkable deprivation" but it would impact many areas that people aren't considering. I for one use the grocery sacks as waste can trash bags. I wouldn't stop using trash bags, so no net reduction in plastic usage.
I also use the sacks for storing items, sorting and separating items when camping. I'm not going to stop those activities, so no net reduction.
Some of the bags, I donate to our local community food bank. The use them to let people take home can goods and other supplies. A reduction in their supply would increase costs, reducing their ability to help the community.
How long will cds and dvds be around for any way? It took the technology of records a while to go from from metal cylinders to vinyl, but once we discarded vinyl, things moved fast.
Well, seeing how I recently pulled out some game CDs that I bought 15 years ago for a much older computer I would say that CDs and DVDs will still be around for a while.
On the same note, I just purchased a USB connected turntable to record some albums so I can transfer them to an MP3 player. I still enjoy listening to the vinyl.
One of the records I'm transferring is an album my father purchased in 1969. The vinyl album is still in good shape. So many we haven't moved on past them yet. Many people are finding enjoyment in listening to music on vinyl.
Do I think we need to find a way to reduce usage of plastic, absolutely. But not for any "OMG We are killing the World" fantasy scenario, it just makes sense to continue maximize our resources.
What I have a problem with is the people who want us to "have an oil free" economy in 10 years. They completely overlook the need for oil in so many vital industries, especially plastics and how vital plastic is to our modern life.
Bob, the Wife has been doing the same thing with her Father's record collection. The software she uses is GREAT!
What Micro is doing of course is the semi-Luddite approach to environmentalism. You ban X that has been "proven" (often with junk science funded by environmentalist groups who make their existence off of such studies...this goes both ways, I remember watching a film at a local Nuclear power plant and it showed that fission power was just the best form of energy EVER *Duh, the film was made by a nuclear power plant!*)
And then somehow once x has been removed from our lives a similar, but yet somehow less objectionable thing will come into our lives.
Well of course you're ignoring the single-minded nature in lobbies in general. The environmental lobbies call for the shutting down of a coal power plant because of air pollution, and state that solar, wind, and hydroelectric power is a better alternative (they're right) of course when the plans for Hydroelectric dams, solar collection facilities, or wind farms come up the pike, the same lobby who shut down the coal plant are now pushing environmental impact studies that will block the production of the clean power plants!
Will CDs and DVDs be around forever? Well DVDs are switching to Blue Ray, that'll be around for a few more years at least. But CDs are a dying race. they're being replaced by MP3 players...that are made of plastic.
So Bob has a great point. You may want something gone, but with no viable alternative what's the gain?
Do we want to go back to cars looking like this? http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1950-1959/1953-Hudson-Hornet-black-le.jpg
Big boats that were certainly crash safe, but had difficulty getting to highway speeds and got gas millage you could count on one hand.
Luddite? That's too easy. I live in country that has begun to phase out plastic bags and it's a simple jump. I brought up the evolution of sound recording and both of you talked about how you are taking advantage of the evolution as it progresses. I can easily see a low impact eco friendly future.... I know many people here and in America who are off the grid. I have a solar powered pump on my well. I said it would take a while to change, but it does take the will to do it and the ability to imagine change. Garrr..... There's been planty change in the short span I've been on this planet.
In Italy it seems we're way behind in environmental awareness. That may be deceiving however. I'm only going on the visible behaviour, people littering and not bothering with recycling, etc.
Lately, I've been listening to a fantastic radio station on the way to work each morning. This is because my car CD player needs replacing; probably some plastic part in it is defective.
Anyway, Lifegate radio is all about environmental issues and zero carbon impact and all that. Plus they play the most eclectic and interesting music. Check them out here.
Do you have any idea of the impact a ban on plastic would have to the world?
ReplyDeleteMost medical devices and equipment are using plastic; from simple IV bags and tubes, syringes, pace makers, HEART VALVES, and thousands of others.
The fuel economy of cars would plummet drastically, the truth is that plastic makes up the recent savings in fuel economy and cost reduction. Also consider the impact that additional metal mining would have on the environment.
Household conviniences such as Televisions, radios, CD - didn't realize those were "plastic" did you? DVDs, most small electric appliances.
Let's not forget the advances in food storage - Tupperware type storage containers - many bags and cans use liners made out of plastic....more spoilage, higher costs.
Clothing -- polypropylene is the main component in fleece and other such materials. Light weight affordable weather protection would be gone...say hello to more seal hunting and hunting of all sorts. Leather goods would rile the PETA folks ( I might support a limited ban just to get their ire up).
And the list goes on.
There is a sci - fi book about the subject of a bacteria that destroys plastic called Ill Wind by Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason. I recommend you pick it up at your local Barnes and Nobles, it is a very good read.
Did that guy mention, 'Earth Day?' Oh, for shame! An oh-so righteous christian woman pooh-poohed THAT event as godless. Read it on my blog today for some fundy humor.
ReplyDeleteHmm, notice that you approved Muddy's comment but not mine.
ReplyDeleteAny bias going on there MikeB?
Now, for my edification and understanding MikeB....exactly what in my original post didn't meet your standards?
ReplyDeleteI have been trying to behave (mostly) but if your capricious and arbitrary moderation continues, what reason do I have to be nice?
Bob, If you wrote that post twice, I swear I didn't see the first one. You should know me enough to know that I'm not playing games. I wrote the commenting policy and I'm administering it the best I can. You know the kinds of things I don't allow; I was very clear about that.
ReplyDeleteI may add one more now though. Any comments that contain, "you accepted his, why didn't you accept mine?" or anything along those lines, will no longer be seen on this blog. You can save that crap for the local kindergarten. Tell them what an enemy of the 1st Amendment I am, and even the 5-year-olds will laugh at you. Oh, sorry, that's Weer'd who said that. I've been confusing you guys lately.
Are you still here, Bob?
ReplyDeleteJust the other day, wasn't it you with all the dire, melodramatic predictions about how MikeB would live to regret his new commenting policy, as people such as yourself move on to greener pastures?
When are you planning to start punishing MikeB by depriving him of the benefit of your input? Come on...go Galt, dude!
Mike,
ReplyDeleteThe reason I ask that question is to understand your thought process and requirements on acceptable behavior.
Isn't that what you want?
Now you are telling me that I can't even ask why one post was printed but another was denied?
I never said you are an enemy of the 1st amendment, your blog your rules.
What I will point out, here or others is the blatant hypocrisy when it appears.
You don't like being called a liar when you lie, you don't like being called names when your behavior warrants such names, now I wonder how much longer will it be before even your hypocrisy can't be mentioned.
See the problem is when you start moderating your comments like you have been, your judgment and values are highlighted by what you allow and don't allow.
In my opinion, by moderating the comments to reject being called a liar, you show you aren't interested in the truth.
Yes, we live in a world full of plastic, but impossible and unrealistic as you might want to portray it, we can easily cut down on our over use and abuse of disposable non recyclable waste.
ReplyDeleteBob S. would you consider it an unworkable deprivation if the stores you went to stopped giving you a plastic bag for each purchase?
Would that inconvenience and and make your life impossible?
Of course not. You are just used to having plastic bags with each purchase. If you had to, you would either bring your own reusable bag or just put the stuff you buy in your car.
Most of the ways you can cut down on plastic require thought anbd lifestyle change, but most of it is convenience of habit..
Case in point:
How long will cds and dvds be around for any way? It took the technology of records a while to go from from metal cylinders to vinyl, but once we discarded vinyl, things moved fast.
Now as we are just getting used to cds and dvds
as a storage system, we are entering very rapidly into another era all together of data storage.
Yes, granted, plastic will be with us in one form or another for a while, but technology is rapidly advancing, making plastics that are much more structurally permanent or degradable and we are evolving into a non disposable world...
with a non disposable economy, I hope.
Microdot,
ReplyDeleteBob S. would you consider it an unworkable deprivation if the stores you went to stopped giving you a plastic bag for each purchase?
No, it wouldn't be an "unworkable deprivation" but it would impact many areas that people aren't considering. I for one use the grocery sacks as waste can trash bags. I wouldn't stop using trash bags, so no net reduction in plastic usage.
I also use the sacks for storing items, sorting and separating items when camping. I'm not going to stop those activities, so no net reduction.
Some of the bags, I donate to our local community food bank. The use them to let people take home can goods and other supplies. A reduction in their supply would increase costs, reducing their ability to help the community.
How long will cds and dvds be around for any way? It took the technology of records a while to go from from metal cylinders to vinyl, but once we discarded vinyl, things moved fast.
Well, seeing how I recently pulled out some game CDs that I bought 15 years ago for a much older computer I would say that CDs and DVDs will still be around for a while.
On the same note, I just purchased a USB connected turntable to record some albums so I can transfer them to an MP3 player. I still enjoy listening to the vinyl.
One of the records I'm transferring is an album my father purchased in 1969. The vinyl album is still in good shape. So many we haven't moved on past them yet. Many people are finding enjoyment in listening to music on vinyl.
Do I think we need to find a way to reduce usage of plastic, absolutely. But not for any "OMG We are killing the World" fantasy scenario, it just makes sense to continue maximize our resources.
What I have a problem with is the people who want us to "have an oil free" economy in 10 years. They completely overlook the need for oil in so many vital industries, especially plastics and how vital plastic is to our modern life.
Bob, the Wife has been doing the same thing with her Father's record collection. The software she uses is GREAT!
ReplyDeleteWhat Micro is doing of course is the semi-Luddite approach to environmentalism. You ban X that has been "proven" (often with junk science funded by environmentalist groups who make their existence off of such studies...this goes both ways, I remember watching a film at a local Nuclear power plant and it showed that fission power was just the best form of energy EVER *Duh, the film was made by a nuclear power plant!*)
And then somehow once x has been removed from our lives a similar, but yet somehow less objectionable thing will come into our lives.
Well of course you're ignoring the single-minded nature in lobbies in general. The environmental lobbies call for the shutting down of a coal power plant because of air pollution, and state that solar, wind, and hydroelectric power is a better alternative (they're right) of course when the plans for Hydroelectric dams, solar collection facilities, or wind farms come up the pike, the same lobby who shut down the coal plant are now pushing environmental impact studies that will block the production of the clean power plants!
Will CDs and DVDs be around forever? Well DVDs are switching to Blue Ray, that'll be around for a few more years at least. But CDs are a dying race. they're being replaced by MP3 players...that are made of plastic.
So Bob has a great point. You may want something gone, but with no viable alternative what's the gain?
Do we want to go back to cars looking like this?
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1950-1959/1953-Hudson-Hornet-black-le.jpg
Big boats that were certainly crash safe, but had difficulty getting to highway speeds and got gas millage you could count on one hand.
Luddite?
ReplyDeleteThat's too easy.
I live in country that has begun to phase out plastic bags and it's a simple jump.
I brought up the evolution of sound recording and both of you talked about how you are taking advantage of the evolution as it progresses.
I can easily see a low impact eco friendly future....
I know many people here and in America who are off the grid.
I have a solar powered pump on my well.
I said it would take a while to change, but it does take the will to do it and the ability to imagine change.
Garrr.....
There's been planty change in the short span I've been on this planet.
In Italy it seems we're way behind in environmental awareness. That may be deceiving however. I'm only going on the visible behaviour, people littering and not bothering with recycling, etc.
ReplyDeleteLately, I've been listening to a fantastic radio station on the way to work each morning. This is because my car CD player needs replacing; probably some plastic part in it is defective.
Anyway, Lifegate radio is all about environmental issues and zero carbon impact and all that. Plus they play the most eclectic and interesting music. Check them out here.