Ahhh. The old "confront one issue and then change the discussion to a different point, defeat that one, and say you've defeated both."
I haven't done the research to say if this guy is right or not about what the Fox news judge said. But in terms of Joe Wilson ...
When he spoke, there were 5 total bills in play, and only 1 had any speech about illegal immigrants, but -- but that bill had no requirement for verification, which made it meaningless (repubs had pushed for the amendment, but it got voted down for dems).
"Are you an illegal immigrant Senor?"
"No."
"Alrighty then."
I don't approve of what the SC representative did, but he was correct. Possibly due to the reaction, Max's bill in the senate DOES have a requirement to verify citizenship, something that has the far left in a bit of a tizzy.
So, as so typical on both sides of the issue, the actual portion of the proposal being discussed is completely ignored. This is more accurately an attack against FOX's legal analyst.
As discussed (I heard the assessment on NPR, hardly a conservative mouthpiece), the 'You lie' objection refers not to an explicit coverage of illegal immigrants, but to Republican opposition to the proposal's not requiring identification before someone could receive treatment.
As the argument goes, since illegal immigrants would be unable to obtain such an ID, requiring its presentation would prevent their receiving care on the government dime. Without such a required ID, anyone (including those ineligible for coverage) could walk in, including illegal immigrants.
Funny how this analysis doesn't even address this complaint from the Republicans.
Come ON party mouthpieces, quick just spouting the party sound bites, think for yourself, and address the actual issues from each others' sides!
You are probably aware that I worte an excellent posting on the health care legislation process over on my blog. http://pinione.blogspot.com/2009/09/max-baucus-health-care-lobbyist-complex.html In case you did not read it or the other readers, here is a brief passage from the posting.
Thanks to the blog, TomDispatch, a contributor to that blog, Andy Kroll, recently wrote an extremely insightful piece on how the influence machine in Washington D.C. works. Citing information from a Bloomberg.com news story, Kroll discussed how the health care industry in America has hired 3,300 lobbyists on the issue of health care reform. That comes out to a staggering six lobbyists for every one of the 535 members of Congress. These lobbyists and the groups they represent have spent over $263.4 million on lobbying during the first six months of 2009. The amount of lobbyists working for the health care industry is by far the largest group of lobbyists, far outnumbering the 2,400 lobbyists working for the financial industry and the 1,000 lobbyists working for the defense industry.
So that brings us back to Senator Max Baucus the unassuming Senator from Montana who received $1.2 million from health industries for his 2008 re-election campaign, $690,050 of which came from health-related political action committees, the most for any Washington politician. It should be no surprise to learn that Senator Baucus is against the public option and supports a non-profit co-op model, a pseudo-public option that, while successful in a handful of settings nationwide, would, most experts believe, likely fail dismally in any competition with heavyweight private health insurers.
Just as the military industrial complex has a revolving door of retired military officers becoming high priced lobbyists, five former members of Senator’s Max Baucus staff, including two former chiefs of staff are now lobbyists for the health care industry. As detailed by the Sunlight Foundation, a non partisan think tank dedicated to exposing corruption in the U.S. government, five of Baucus’ former staffers currently work for a total of twenty-seven different organizations that are either in the health care or insurance sector or have a noted interest in the outcome. The organizations represented include some of the top lobbying organizations in the health sector: Pharmaceutical Manufacturers and Researchers of America (PhRMA), America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), Amgen, and GE Health Care.
Yes, Principe, that blatant influence peddling is at the very heart of democracy.
By the way, when I wrote, "This guy's the best," I meant Liberal Viewer not Obama. But the way the posting looked, with Obama on the video, it was ambiguous.
it seems everyone talks about everything else besides the core issue of influence by money and lobbyists. it flaws the democratic process and is the most important issue. the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many with lobbying. it is legalized corruption. and yes, I knew you meant liberal viewer. one of the best youtube activists out there....while the Grand Prince has his own little kingdom over at Opinoine!!
Ahhh. The old "confront one issue and then change the discussion to a different point, defeat that one, and say you've defeated both."
ReplyDeleteI haven't done the research to say if this guy is right or not about what the Fox news judge said. But in terms of Joe Wilson ...
When he spoke, there were 5 total bills in play, and only 1 had any speech about illegal immigrants, but -- but that bill had no requirement for verification, which made it meaningless (repubs had pushed for the amendment, but it got voted down for dems).
"Are you an illegal immigrant Senor?"
"No."
"Alrighty then."
I don't approve of what the SC representative did, but he was correct. Possibly due to the reaction, Max's bill in the senate DOES have a requirement to verify citizenship, something that has the far left in a bit of a tizzy.
So, as so typical on both sides of the issue, the actual portion of the proposal being discussed is completely ignored. This is more accurately an attack against FOX's legal analyst.
ReplyDeleteAs discussed (I heard the assessment on NPR, hardly a conservative mouthpiece), the 'You lie' objection refers not to an explicit coverage of illegal immigrants, but to Republican opposition to the proposal's not requiring identification before someone could receive treatment.
As the argument goes, since illegal immigrants would be unable to obtain such an ID, requiring its presentation would prevent their receiving care on the government dime. Without such a required ID, anyone (including those ineligible for coverage) could walk in, including illegal immigrants.
Funny how this analysis doesn't even address this complaint from the Republicans.
Come ON party mouthpieces, quick just spouting the party sound bites, think for yourself, and address the actual issues from each others' sides!
You are probably aware that I worte an excellent posting on the health care legislation process over on my blog.
ReplyDeletehttp://pinione.blogspot.com/2009/09/max-baucus-health-care-lobbyist-complex.html
In case you did not read it or the other readers, here is a brief passage from the posting.
Thanks to the blog, TomDispatch, a contributor to that blog, Andy Kroll, recently wrote an extremely insightful piece on how the influence machine in Washington D.C. works. Citing information from a Bloomberg.com news story, Kroll discussed how the health care industry in America has hired 3,300 lobbyists on the issue of health care reform. That comes out to a staggering six lobbyists for every one of the 535 members of Congress. These lobbyists and the groups they represent have spent over $263.4 million on lobbying during the first six months of 2009. The amount of lobbyists working for the health care industry is by far the largest group of lobbyists, far outnumbering the 2,400 lobbyists working for the financial industry and the 1,000 lobbyists working for the defense industry.
So that brings us back to Senator Max Baucus the unassuming Senator from Montana who received $1.2 million from health industries for his 2008 re-election campaign, $690,050 of which came from health-related political action committees, the most for any Washington politician. It should be no surprise to learn that Senator Baucus is against the public option and supports a non-profit co-op model, a pseudo-public option that, while successful in a handful of settings nationwide, would, most experts believe, likely fail dismally in any competition with heavyweight private health insurers.
Just as the military industrial complex has a revolving door of retired military officers becoming high priced lobbyists, five former members of Senator’s Max Baucus staff, including two former chiefs of staff are now lobbyists for the health care industry. As detailed by the Sunlight Foundation, a non partisan think tank dedicated to exposing corruption in the U.S. government, five of Baucus’ former staffers currently work for a total of twenty-seven different organizations that are either in the health care or insurance sector or have a noted interest in the outcome. The organizations represented include some of the top lobbying organizations in the health sector: Pharmaceutical Manufacturers and Researchers of America (PhRMA), America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), Amgen, and GE Health Care.
Yes, Principe, that blatant influence peddling is at the very heart of democracy.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, when I wrote, "This guy's the best," I meant Liberal Viewer not Obama. But the way the posting looked, with Obama on the video, it was ambiguous.
it seems everyone talks about everything else besides the core issue of influence by money and lobbyists. it flaws the democratic process and is the most important issue. the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many with lobbying. it is legalized corruption.
ReplyDeleteand yes, I knew you meant liberal viewer. one of the best youtube activists out there....while the Grand Prince has his own little kingdom over at Opinoine!!