Friday, November 20, 2009

The Death Penalty for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

America Magazine published a post in their blog which I found very interesting. (via The Deacon's Bench)

From our friend Camille D'Arienzo, RSM, who works with those on death row.

Attorney General Eric Holder’s decision to try the accused 9/11 perpetrators in a civilian court near Ground Zero has ignited a national debate over whether the accused Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his companions should face a military or civilian court. Other concerns include the safety of the city, the opportunity for propaganda and the possibility of acquittal, based on waterboarding the men experienced in Guantanamo.

One matter not being debated is Mr. Holder’s determination to urge the prosecution to seek the death penalty for these mass murderers.

If the destruction perpetrated here had occurred in London, Paris, Rome or any other European city, the death penalty would not be debated either. It is not allowed in nations that form the European Union.

If the death penalty were forbidden here, life without parole would at very least deprive these mass murderers of presenting themselves as martyrs and us as their killers.


Now those are pragmatic considerations that even the most blood-thirsty vengeance seekers should consider. Upon execution, Sheikh Mohammed becomes a martyr and The United States becomes more the oppressor in the eyes of the world. Is that what we really want?

What do you think?

20 comments:

  1. More people need to realize that terrorists are psychopaths. There is not a rational thought in their head. The biggest mistake we can make is to try to rationalize the behavior of the irrational.

    Whether we make KSM into a martyr or not, those who want to kill Americans will still want to kill Americans. If we take away one of their reasons for killing Americans, they will just find a new reason. If we give him life in prison, they'll just keep killing people until we let him out. And if we let him out, they'll keep killing people because we locked him up in the first place.

    Whether we execute him or not, it's a no win situation from the pragmatic point of view. So I say execute him, if for no other reason than to rid the world of a pest.

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  2. "Is that what we really want?"

    Nope, Just want him executed for his crimes, and I want to see you cry because we killed a terrorist!

    Maybe if I'm lucky you'll attempt to compare it to murder and Mudrake will say "Bush Junta"!

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  3. This is a thoughtful consideration. The problem in this crime is its connection to the Islamic religion, so the USA has also to consult the meaning of the sentence projected in the religious perspective, in order to make it effective enough. I really don't envy those deciding this matter. Elli

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  4. AztecRed, I'm afraid you're not the only one who thinks this way.

    "So I say execute him, if for no other reason than to rid the world of a pest."

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  5. Aztec- very thoughtful comment.

    Weerd- where has the Bush Junta gone? Paraguay or perhaps Bolivia to hide from the World Court which is after those sorry-asses?

    Toronto- it's all about fundamentalist religion both there and here. The American fundamentalists are only slightly more guilt-free as they do not commit mass murders these days.

    Mike- thanks for the opportunity to ponder this question

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  6. I seem to recall that the European experience with life without parole has been that the jailbird's compatriots will often at some point seize citizens of the imprisoning country and threaten to kill their hostages unless their friend is released.

    Is that a downside?

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  7. "Upon execution, Sheikh Mohammed becomes a martyr and The United States becomes more the oppressor in the eyes of the world. Is that what we really want?"

    Yup. I'm for helping that dirtbag and all of his islamic terrorist buddies get their 70 virgins or whatever it is they seek.

    Europe has tolerated islamic terrorism for years. It is a relatively new concept for Americans to live with it and I think we've pretty much decided that we aren't going to put up with it.

    We do not condemn Islam, just nut jobs that think if they kill some innocents that their religion will be better for. Obviously that twisted bullshit isn't going to fly here.

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  8. I do find it interesting that AG Holder is "garaunteeing" a conviction in the KSM case.

    That smells of a show trial.

    If the top LEO is confident enough to make such a statement, why don't we just kill him now, before the trial?

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  9. "We do not condemn Islam, just nut jobs that think if they kill some innocents that their religion will be better for."

    Reminds me of the Christian Crusades when men took up their swords and...

    Same story line, same agenda, different time, different 'god.'

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  10. I heard that AG Holder has said that in the event that KSM is not found guilty, he will not be released. So KSM is now serving an "administrative" life imprisonment without parole, and if found not guilty he will continue to serve life imprisonment without parole.

    So if he is tried and found guilty without the DP as an option, he will be sentenced to what? Life imprisonment without parole? What's the point?

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  11. It's a show trial like kaveman said. And I'm afraid it'll end in a show execution. That'll make a lot of people happy, but not me.

    If he's proven guilty of what they say, he should stay in prison for life with none of the quasi-celebrity of characters like Manson. The Sheikh should remain in total obscurity in Leavenworth or some place like that.

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  12. Mikeb: "If he's proven guilty of what they say, he should stay in prison for life with none of the quasi-celebrity of characters like Manson. The Sheikh should remain in total obscurity in Leavenworth or some place like that."

    And if he's NOT proven guilty?

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  13. I got to thinking on the way home about Holder's "garauntee", my comment about a show trial and FishyJay's spot-on response.

    Eric Holder may have just provided KSM with an iron-clad case for dismissal of the charges against him.

    Step 1. Recant his confession and say he made it under duress via torture.

    Step 2. Say he can't get a fair trial because of Holder's own comment.

    Step 3. Walk away a free man?

    I don't think #3 will actually happen due to FJ's analysis but regardless, Holder's comment was an extremely stupid thing to say.

    A good defense attorney will jump on that like a suicide bomber on a pile of virgins.

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  14. The death penalty is immoral and flat out wrong in my opinion. The state should not have the power to take life in the name of justice.

    Giving KSM a trial in our court system takes away from the integrity of the rule of law. It will be nothing but a show trial in a kangaroo court.

    I suspect that the AG's intention (with Obama's approval) is to expose the intelligence community to ridicule and controversy.

    No good will come of this. KSM should be given a trial by military tribunal. By his own admission of guilt, he should be given life at hard labor with no parole.

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  15. VOR, I'm with you all the way on the comment.

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  16. FishyJay asks, "And if he's NOT proven guilty?"

    Does that mean you go for due process unless the laws are about gun control or terrorists?

    Please explain the question?

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  17. Just pointing out again that the results of a guilty verdict with life imprisonment seems rather similar to the likely results of a not guilty verdict.

    I don't have all the answers, but that seems somewhat pointless.

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  18. Jay, You're right that would be pointless. I guess what they'll do, the trial fixers, is make sure that if he's not guilty of the capital offence he'll be guilty of enough lesser charges to never get out.

    But what if he was tortured to get the confession? What should they do then?

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  19. Mikeb: "But what if he was tortured to get the confession? What should they do then?"


    IF information gained by torture has any use at all, one use it should NOT have is as a confession usable in court. If that's all we got, I would not expect a guilty verdict for the main charge(s).

    I would still expect that, as you said, "he'll be guilty of enough lesser charges to never get out."

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  20. I heard a slightly tongue-in-cheek solution to the KSM problem that has a bit of primal appeal.

    As has been pointed out, a problem with executing KSM is that he WANTS to be executed as a martyr for Islam.

    However, American Muslim spokesmen and American Muslim clergymen have claimed that KSM's action are NOT supported by Islam.

    So: KSM should be allowed visits with these American Muslim spokesmen and American Muslim clergymen and be given access to their literature, until such time as he realizes that his actions were NOT the will of Allah, NOT supported by Islam, and his death as a result will NOT make him a martyr for Islam.

    THEN execute him.

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