Note the feet protruding from the garbage toward the centre front of the picture!
These protesters are evil! Murdering other protesters and dumping the bodies in garbage.
Give me a break.
Some people miss that people can lie with photographs: they can be photoshopped, cropped, misrepresented, etcetera.
See:
So someone peaceably exercises his 2nd amendment rights, the police are cool the assembled 99%ers are cool yet the Mayor freaks out,
ReplyDeleteGuys, I'm down at the 'protest' now, with a sign and a slung AK. I can tell you the police presence is a bit more than necessary, but they aren't being the least bit intrusive.
The movement here has the feel of being a dud and the best strategy for the mayor would be to just ignore it and let it fade away on its own.
Also, almost all of the people down here have been friendly and willing to have reasonable discussions. If you don't like what they have to say, I suggest you come down here and respectfully try to change their minds, and let them know you don't support the city forcing them out.
It is my understanding that the occupy wall street protesters were the ones who objected to the guy with the AK47. So your representation that they were 'ok with it' is inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteThey found it contrary to their position of non-violent protest. Having a gun at a protest implies a willingness to use it.
It is my understanding that the police showed up and agreed that the guy had to go, not that 'they were ok with it'. IF they were ok with it, as you claim, they would not have taken the action they did.So you are inaccurate on your second point.
And they were all correct to act to remove this guy. What an idiot.
goes to the park to talk to the protestors, then leaves......
ReplyDeleteSo Mayor Reed ordered the overnight arrests of unarmed demonstrators and barricade of the park.
italics mine...... but Stouffer had left the park
Porch told Stouffer he was there, "to support the people that deserve to be in the park. They shouldn't be thrown out for peacefully protesting. They've got a right to be here just like anybody else."
One protester said, "That's sabotaging the message, we're nonviolent."
Were the protestors/Stouffer doing anything against the law?
It is my understanding that the police showed up and agreed that the guy had to go, not that 'they were ok with it'. IF they were ok with it, as you claim, they would not have taken the action they did.So you are inaccurate on your second point.
Georgia does not differentiate between concealed and open carry except that under the law, a Georgia Weapons License holder may carry a weapon or long-gun openly or concealed in any location that is not off limits.
So it is OK for the police to tell someone to go because they are not ok with it, it being, upholding the law...
So the Mayor wanted them to gone and broke the law doing it.
It is my understanding that the police showed up and agreed that the guy had to go....
ReplyDeleteThen why make everyone else leave since he was the only "troublemaker?"
Not breaking the law....
And arrest everyone else in the middle of the night?
Ah, we have the right wing fact-averse circulating the same inaccuracies again.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I like to do when I verify a story is to check out what the local media have to say about it; they tend to be more likely on the spot, and to have some relationship with local politicians and others that allows them to more correctly identify and report what was going on.
From the Atlanta Business Chronicle:
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2011/10/man-with-ak-47-big-reason-reed-ordered.html
Man with AK-47 big reason Reed ordered Occupy Atl. out
Atlanta Business Chronicle by Carla Caldwell, Morning Call Editor
Date: Thursday, October 27, 2011, 6:23am EDT
Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed says his decision to revoke an executive order allowing Occupy Atlanta to use Woodruff Park was prompted in large part by the presence of a man carrying an AK-47. The mayor said the man, who has been taking part in the protest, was seen near former Atlanta Mayor Andrew Young, who visited with protesters on Tuesday, reports Atlanta Business Chronicle broadcast partner WXIA-TV.
WXIA-TV’s Jaye Watson spoke to the man, who declined to identify himself. "(The gun is) a symbol of the last line of resistance against a government that's going to try to push people out because of their ideals," he said. The man told Watson the weapon was a semi-automatic version of the AK-47. Such weapons are legal in Georgia.
The presence of the assault rifle appeared to represent a more aggressive outlook among some of those encamped at Woodruff Park, so protesters were ordered out of the park, Reed said, the station reported.
"By every measure, from the way they treated people from my administration, to things that they said on camera, to having a man with an AK-47 accompany a leader that came to a press conference that I met with, all put us on a trajectory toward something bad," Reed said."
The statement:
"(The gun is) a symbol of the last line of resistance against a government that's going to try to push people out because of their ideals," he said."
is consistent with the tea party, who are fond of asserting that if they don't get what they want through the ballot box they will resort to getting what they want with bullets.
It is NOT consistent with the totally non-violent methods and policy/ philosophy of the OWS. The OWS is not claiming that there is any need or desire for blood to be spilled anywhere, much less in a pseudo-patriotic insanity.
And from the Examiner, it appears that the man with the AK47 is not quite so darned law abiding as some of our commenters would have us believe, either.
ReplyDelete(Where do you right wing nuts get your info anyway - Breitbart, or Fox News? I suppose the spin they put on information explains your dizzy notions in place of solid fact - barely.)
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-atlanta/occupy-atlanta-protester-follows-georgia-birther-lead-carries-ak-47
The Occupy Atlanta protest movement holed up at Woodruff Park ended in the wee hours of the morning on Wed., Oct. 26 with 52 arrests, but not before one protester spent the previous day walking around the park with his AK-47 assault rifle in hand, according to the City of Atlanta website.
Georgia 'birther' Darren Wesley Huff was convicted in a Tennessee court this week for taking his AK-47 across state lines -- with a permit -- so it stands to reason Georgia wouldn't want an Occupy Atlanta protester carrying his assault rifle around in a tense place like a protest movement camp ground either.
Actually, Dog Gone, the more important part of the last article was:
ReplyDeleteThe AJC reported that the protest movement leader, Tim Franzen, realized the likelihood that the police would follow up with acutal arrests once they gave the command to protesters Wed. morning to vacate the park.
Franzen went so far as to help ensure that those criminal elements in his protest movement midst would not be part of that arrest roundup when it took place. Franzen told all Occupy Atlanta protesters who "had been drinking, using drugs, or were on probation," not to stay in the park once the cops said to leave. Franzen didn't want their arrests for valid crimes to taint people's perceptions on what Occupy Atlanta was actually doing in Woodruff Park.
The Tea Partiers can show up armed to the teeth, including one protester who showed up with an AR-15 near the president, and not be harassed by the police.
But if a left-wing group does the same thing, you would see the cops busting them the way they did the two "protesters" who were caught with firearms at OWS Rallies.
The other question is whether this person is an agent provacateur? I wouldn't put it past the right.
They have been doing everything they can to discredit and silence the movement.
Fact is that the movement is peaceful and popular.
More on Agent Provacateur infiltration of the Occupy movement.
ReplyDeleteNext thing you know, the various city leaders will send in law enforcement, sometimes violently, to disperse the demonstrators in a pre-crime/Minority Report-style effort to prevent action from happening. Using violence to prevent violence -- Bush-era logic if any ever existed.
Sound familiar?
Two-Face
ReplyDeleteFranzen went so far as to help ensure that those criminal elements in his protest movement midst would not be part of that arrest roundup when it took place. Franzen told all Occupy Atlanta protesters who "had been drinking, using drugs, wow public drinking and drug use and not a word of it in the media or were on probation," not to stay in the park once the cops said to leave. Franzen didn't want their arrests for valid crimes to taint people's perceptions on what Occupy Atlanta was actually doing in Woodruff Park.
I get it now, commit crimes just don't let the man catch you at it..... and make us all look bad.....
I do not think it means what you think it means.
ReplyDeleteTraditionally, an agent provocateur (plural: agents provocateurs, French for "inciting agent(s)") is a person employed by the police or other entity to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal act. More generally, the term may refer to a person or group that seeks to discredit or harm another by provoking them to commit a wrong or rash action.
He did not entice or provoke anyone into a wrong or rash action, or an illegal act, he talked and left, the OWSr's were peaceful after that....... but got arrested and kicked off property anyway...
Oh you think that the Mayor was too stupid to tell the difference...... and he commited an illegal act......
It seems clear that 1. the guy with the gun was acting contrary to the position and philosophy of the occupy movements, and rather instead following the premise of the tea party that is threatening that sooner or later they WILL act violently.
ReplyDelete2. An agent provocateur is someone who is interested in making a group look bad, using your second definition. As the mayor used the pretext of the guy with the AK47 to shut down the protesters, however long it took the mayor to make that decision, clearly the guy with the gun is providing law enforcement with an excuse to act against the protesters. By that definition, he qualifies as an agent provocateur.
Wow,guess what, You keep using that word, that is exactly what I mean.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's how its used.
And that's what happened.
Only a fucking idiot would show up with a gun at a lefty rally since the cops would be down their throats.
Wait, they were down their throats.
Two Face, I haven't read a lot about Franzen, but from what I do understand, there has been no decision to condone drinking or drug use by the OWSgroups, any of them anywhere, rather they have discouraged it.
ReplyDeleteThey have exclusively and explicitly advocated civil disobedience relating to the protests.
What happened in New York City, which puts a different perspective on this, is that those who have been arrested have been offered the dismissal of their arrest charges if they accept a deal where they cannot be arrested again in the next 6 months,INCLUDING FOR PROTESTING. It is viewed as a dirty trick to leverage a 1st amendment right arrest for exercising freedom of speech so as to prevent further exercise of that right.
In Atlanta it sounds as if there is a concern that those with prior records who are not engaging in any criminal conduct will be treated unfairly and more harshly in the exercise of their right to assemble and their right to free speech.
Further, one of the issues being addressed by the occupy movement is the unfair and unequal treatment in the Justice System of poor people compared to the prosecution and sentencing of weatlhy people. THAT issue would clearly attract people who had prior experience with the Justice System, where they may very much be afraid of that system being used unfairly against them again.
So, no, in that context, I do understand and do not disagree with the warnings given. That does not mean I condone the use of drugs or drinking, but I don't understand that to be the case with this movement. I think you are conflating to things which do not properly go together.
The Tea Partiers can show up armed to the teeth, including one protester who showed up with an AR-15 near the president, and not be harassed by the police.
ReplyDeleteNeither of them were breaking the law......
They both should have been left alone, so should the OWSr's.....
The mayor using the flimsy excuse on the OWSr's load of crap......