And to thank my co-bloggers for the honor, I've decided to build upon Laci's recent post by creating a poster to summarize the issue a bit more, showing that our extreme gun culture in the U.S. isn't functionally much different from that of the "third-world" countries we are horrified of. Enjoy.
Other than the fact that these third-world gun markets are less tidy or well-lit and have a bit more dangerous weapons (like fully-auto machine guns -- though the gunloons here in the U.S. would love to have the ability), I don't see much difference between the gun market of Darra, Pakistan, for instance, and most gun shows here in the U.S. As with the Darra market, you can walk into most gun shows here in most states and buy as many gunz you want, right up to .50-caliber sniper rifles and semi-auto assault rifles, no background check needed (from private sellers).
Actually, US gun loons do have the ability for fully automatic weapons--the problem is that they have to jump through a few more hoops to get them than just show up with a driver's licence.
ReplyDeletecan't have things like waiting periods, background checks, and fees spoiling their fun.
Hey Laci, since y'all are so big on citations, how about you cite where it's so easy to own an automatic weapon, eh? Let me help you. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332506
DeleteFrom someone who has gone through the process;
Most states permit citizens to own full-auto weapons. You can forget California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey and probably a few others.
1. The first step is to contact the Sheriff of the county in which you live. Ask the Sheriff if he will sign off on a Form 4 for you to own a machine gun. He'll know what you are asking. Generally, Big City Sheriffs are less likely to sign; small town and more rural Sheriffs seem more inclined to sign. You'll either get a positive response or a smart-ass response.
2. Have about $4,000+ cash ready to spend. You will need to pay for the gun, at least one $200 revenue stamp tax, and some money to a Class III dealer to complete the transfer for you.
3. If you are a convicted felon, you can probably forget about it.
4. Be prepared to have the local Sheriff do his own investigation, which could mean just about anything. Mine sent a deputy out to interview my neighbors and interview my wife before he would sign. I've heard of some who want to see that you have a safe to lock it up in.
5. Find and negotiate your purchase of the intended firearm. Complete the Form 4 (ask others how to answer certain questions), and submit it to BATFE together with finger print card and photograph. BATFE will get the FBI to do a background investigation on you - what they actually do, beyond a NICS check, I have no idea. Wait 3-6 months and then your Class III dealer will notify you when you can take possession of the machinegun you have already purchased.
6. Note, you need to know whether you can get through the process before you purchase the gun. The purchase takes place when you pay for it, not when you take possession. If you aren't permitted to take possession - YOU STILL OWN THE MACHINEGUN, but it must stay with the Class III dealer, meaning you will probably have to turn around and sell it.
7. There are ways to get around a CLEO who won't sign off on your Form 4 - LLC, Corp, Trust. Yes, if done right, it works, but you will need to pay a lawyer to do this for you. Not a huge deal, but just more added bullcrap.
8. If you do complete the transfer and take possession of the machinegun - KNOW THE LAWS regarding moving out of state.
9. Also note: check and make sure that you actually have a place somewhat nearby that you can shoot it if you intend to shoot it. I had to join a private shooting range for this.
http://www.atf.gov/
Hey, Mikey, since you are so short on brains--reread what I wrote.
DeleteI never said it was easy--YOU DID, fuckwit.
And you prove my point--it can be done. A lot more steps and money than you might want, but it can be done
And you also show that you are a cretinous fuckwit who can't comprehend the English language.
I'm gonna also add, Mikey, that not only are you short on firepower--you're short on brainpower.
DeleteFurthermore, Mikey, you might wanna get your eyes checked.
DeleteDon't want to shoot up the wrong target with your overpriced plaything.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteMike made a comment that didn't meet our standards.
DeleteAmong other things he incorrectly tried to correct the spelling of the word license or licence.
As part of our effort to educate the uneducated commenter when we encounter them:
World English Dictionary
licence or ( US ) license (ˈlaɪsəns)
— n
1. a certificate, tag, document, etc, giving official permission to do something
2. formal permission or exemption
3. liberty of action or thought; freedom
4. intentional disregard of or deviation from conventional rules to achieve a certain effect: poetic licence
5.excessive freedom
6. licentiousness
[C14: via Old French and Medieval Latin licentia permission, from Latin: freedom, from licet it is allowed]
license or ( US ) license
— n
[C14: via Old French and Medieval Latin licentia permission, from Latin: freedom, from licet it is allowed]
Mike made a comment that didn't meet our standards.
DeleteWhich I happened to miss, but anyway...
It's that US cultural superiority thing which probably was irritated by my pointing out that I never said getting a machinegun was easy.
As I said, he made my point that gunloons can get machineguns, but they have to go through more bother than they care for to exercise what they perceive as their Second Amendment right.
I didn't say it was easy either. But be that as it may, you didn't address the obvious double standard of censoring ill thought out language by a commenter while at the same time, a moderator uses the same language.( fuckwit)
DeleteYou do remember Doggone when you admonished me for name calling and I apologized and refrained from that practice? Like I said, obviously y'all have a double standard where language and Laci the Dog is concerned.
And since this site is moderated, how could my previous comment have been posted without your knowledge?
WTF does y'all mean anyway?
DeleteQuite easily--I didn't moderate it.
Mikey, I think you are reinforcing most of my points here and I don't particularly feel like being too politet5o you here.
In case you missed it, The Constitution and Bill of Rights only apply to governmental agencies, which we aren't the last time I checked.
The Chinese have a proverb that it's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot than open it and confirm their suspicions.
And you keep reinforcing what I say and what I called you with every comment you make.
So, I suggest you quite while I'm ahead.
I didn't say it was easy either.
DeleteWhere did I say you did?
But you said:
Hey Laci, since y'all are so big on citations, how about you cite where it's so easy to own an automatic weapon, eh?
You're seeing things, sport, get your eyes checked.
BTW, I calls 'em likes I sees 'em.
DeleteI called it like I saw it too, but I guess the truth hurts, so you deleted it. Like I said...double standard, but it's MikeB's blog so if that's the way he wants to run it, more power to him.
DeleteHave a nice day.
1. I deleted the comment which was not only rude and offensive, but substantively off-topic - a loser on all counts.
Delete2. I moderate comments from readers, not from my co-admins who can post whatever they like.
3. Your criticism of some degree of double standard is noted, but I weigh against that the quantity and quality of what Laci contributes compared to what you add here, Mike -- and the difference is a gap the size of the Grand Canyon in Laci's favor.
That is the larger context for the moderation Mike; when you contribute something more than simplistic, factually challenged commentary -- such as inaccurate statements about a variety of subjects, including not correctly spell-checking -- then you can expect a little more latitude as well.
4.As to the truth hurting? Have you encountered any for your positions, and would you recognize it if you did? So far, Mikey, you haven't made any truthful and on-topic claims here that have been censored. So, NO, no truth from you has hurt anyone here.
But hey, you just keep on trying, and maybe you'll stumble on something true, although from what you've demonstrated here so far, it will be accidental.
Yeah, Mikey, the truth does hurt and when you see yourself being shown up for a fuckwit who doesn't know what's going on-you just had to lash back.
DeleteSo, as DG said, "So far, Mikey, you haven't made any truthful and on-topic claims here that have been censored. So, NO, no truth from you has hurt anyone here."
It only hurt you.
BTW, Mikey, Lead is a powerful neurotoxin that hurts almost all body organs, particularly the kidneys, red blood cells, and central nervous system. In young children, lead retards the development of the central nervous system and brain.
DeleteYou may want to stop shooting something that is poisoning what little brainpower you have.
No joke, sport.
Mike--Here you go:
Delete--------------------------------------
Thank you for making your contribution
After having wasted a valuable part of
my life reading it again I am now most
delighted to reward your thoughtful or
dare I say 'inspired' efforts toward a
most worthy world by awarding you your
OFFICIAL F U C K W I T CARD
See: http://www.fuckwit.info
--------------------------------------
I called it like I saw it too
DeleteToo bad, not only are you a fuckwit, but you also appear to be blind.
REPEAT
I didn't say it was easy either.
Where did I say you did?
But you said:
Hey Laci, since y'all are so big on citations, how about you cite where it's so easy to own an automatic weapon, eh?
Or does it need to be in braille for you to understand?
Don't you have one of those voice recognition computer programmes that reads to you?
Sorry, that would fail to tell you what was going on.
Not that you would know anyway, Mikey.
I'm wondering how long it will be before we have armed warlords controlling towns in the U.S. Accumulating an arsenal for a small army is no problem here.
ReplyDeleteEver hear of Xe--coming to a town near you soon!
DeleteBaldr Odinson:
ReplyDeleteRe: The private sale (deliberately watered down version of the original proposal) loophole. Are gunshops allowed to buy guns and then sell them to the owners or others, with all due process, who can then turn around and sell brand new weapons for full retail price to folks who wouldn't pass a background check?
Yes, Democommie. There's no regulation I am aware of that would regulate against such sales, for the many states that don't require a background check for private sales.
ReplyDeletedemocommit writes: "Are gunshops allowed to buy guns and then sell them to the owners or others, with all due process, who can then turn around and sell brand new weapons for full retail price to folks who wouldn't pass a background check?"
ReplyDeleteIf they do this as a business, they're in violation of federal law, because they need a FFL to do so.
If they do this knowingly (sell to individuals that they know to be prohibited), this is also a violation of federal law.
The word is knowingly.
DeleteProve somebody knows something beyond a reasonable doubt without being a mindreader.
BTW, ever see all those vids of people at gunshows selling guns to people saying "I can't buy this gun..."?
Of course, Bryan already knows this from his comments at commongunsense.
DeleteHe's just coming up with the standard gunloon myth that everybody is acting legally.
Why penalise the criminals?
Or help their victims?
"If they do this as a business, they're in violation of federal law, because they need a FFL to do so."
ReplyDeleteCitation required.
I'm not suggesting that they're in business (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). They're just good ol' boyz who buy, say, 20 gunz at a time and then get tired of them, JUST IN TIME for the Git'n'Grab Gunzshow in the next county over. How are they breaking the law. Like I said, at the top, citation required; "You can look it up." is NOT a citation.
OK, prove beyond a reasonable doubt, Bryan, that there was a crime if the gun shows up at a crime scene and the seller claims it was lost or stolen.
DeleteThat's the whole reason for those report your lost or stolen gun bills which the NRA keeps fighting.
And for registering firearms.
BTW, if you read Heller-McDonald--background checks and registration don't violate the Second Amendment.
Poor, afraid and powerless liberals. I do wish you a good night's sleep. Enjoy shooting up your drugs or smoking them but please leave the gun debate, it's for adults only. PLEASE DELETE THIS COMMENT! IT MAY FRIGHTEN YOU OR YOUR COMRADES.
ReplyDelete