I am a gun owner. I support the 2nd Amendment and the right to self-defense. Although I’m not a police officer or a gun expert, I am one of the 8 million Americans with a concealed weapons permit. And the most important lesson I’ve learned from the George Zimmerman case is, “Don’t go looking for trouble.”
During training for my concealed weapons license, the instructors consistently emphasized one point: Our firearms should be regarded as a last resort to save our lives when we have no other alternative.
Part of the ethos of responsible concealed weapons permit holders is to avoid getting into dicey situations whenever possible. We should remain aware of our surroundings at all times. We should avoid getting into unnecessary conflicts. If conflicts arise, we should attempt to defuse rather than escalate them. If some jerk gets angry because he thinks we stole his spot in the grocery store parking lot, we should back down or remove ourselves from the situation — precisely because we recognize the deadly consequences if things escalate out of control.
Greg, and I'm afraid many other concealed carry permit holders, don't quite see it like that. For them, backing down when you're in the right is unthinkable. It's giving in to evil. It's letting the thugs take over. To these brave men with gun-muscles, one must draw the line and never submit. Nothing less than freedom is at stake.
What's your opinion? Do you think our level-headed gun owner who wrote the article is the norm? Or, do you think the insecure, overly-touchy characters obsessed with freedom and rights are?
Please leave a comment.
Mikeb, you lie repeatedly about my position, so you can't think that I'm all that volatile. Let that point sink in. You accuse me and others here of being dangerous, irrational, and arrogant bastards. If we really were all those things, what do you think the consequences would be?
ReplyDeleteThe good news is that I'm not, and I believe that my fellow gun-rights advocates aren't.
You're welcome.
Well, it is possible that you just talk a good game. Maybe you'd shit your pants like Teddy and run away. But, if what you say is true about not backing down to the bad guys, then you're a danger to yourself and others. You're especially a danger to anyone who dares to get in your way and refuse to back down themselves. You're the kind of guy, if you're not just talking out your ass, who is likely to sooner or later use your gun unnecessarily.
DeleteOf course you'll describe it as convincingly as Zimmerman and the many others guilty of false DGUs.
And you're the kind of person who shoots off at the mouth with no evidence and less thought.
DeleteSo Greg is dangerous? Say you're king, and you have the "may-issue" for gun ownership (not just carry) that you desire. Do you let Greg own guns, or do you have him disarmed?
DeleteI doubt I'm the only one who would object to Mikeb being king. We'd be in civil war long before the situation that you describe ever came up.
DeleteIf I had it my way, Greg would have to qualify like any other prospective gun owner. If the only strike against him, which I seriously doubt, were his personal attitudes towards thugs and why we should never back down, I'm afraid he'd qualify.
DeleteMikeb, how about you provide some evidence or admit that you're nothing but a piss artist?
DeleteMore slander of Greg and of the bulk of concealed carriers. This guy's attitude is the attitude I see in most carriers.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, we can hold that view and support SYG laws, simultaneously, without our heads exploding. It's a simple issue of not wanting a jury to be asked to look at a situation with clinical hindsight and determine if there were any avenues of retreat/defusing of the situation that were missed in the heat of the moment.
Just reading his comments it's easy to see Greg is arrogant, egotistical, and an ass hole. He continually defends the death of over 30,000 people as nothing compared to his right(?) to own a gun, so he obviously cares little for life, which makes it easy for him to pull the trigger against another human. The Zimmerman case will encourage killings because of this lack of concern for human life. Get a bloody nose, kill that person. Any physical altercation is license to kill. That's the street motto, dis me and die. IF you care little for human life, it's easy to kill.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
DeleteOf course you see that as well said. It's the typical snivelling cowardice that you love. Anonymous gets to make stupid remarks and then retreat into the safety of cyberspace. How cute. I say what I have to say using my own name, and I back up my points.
DeleteYour name is Greg, how enlightening. The clue to who you are, is what you write and how you treat people. We know who and what you are. Your big point is that I'm anonymous? I retreat? I'm here. Now tell me you have better, than to complain about anonymous. Since I don't have a blog, I'm not to be listened to? You gun nuts are not to be listened to.
DeleteFor Greg any perceived victory is a good one. Attacking you for anonymity. He attacks others for not allowing comments on their blogs. He [sic]ed me the other day for saying "data is."
DeleteYou've got to wonder, if he's winning the gun-rights debate so handily, as he claims, why does he resort to all these petty and minor supposed victories.
1. People who attack others anonymously are cowards, barring some kind of danger of state violation of rights.
Delete2. Not allowing comments on a blog shows a fear of the opinion of others.
3. Grammar errors followed by a stubborn refusal to learn the correct way shows faulty thinking.
By the way, none of these things are directly related to the gun-rights argument.
My name is Kevin Schaffer. I live in Minnesota USA. Does that help you? Or do you want to continue this tit for tat you like so well?
DeleteGrammar errors? Comment deletion? Do you want to see my birth certificate? I am anonymous so people like you won't bother me.
Your idiotic, unmoving thinking on gun rights, is at the expense of tens of thousands of lives. So any cry by you that you are correct and those against you are certainly wrong falls on the reality of dead bodies.
I laugh when I hear you guys scream America will lose it's freedom if we cannot have larger capacity magazines, or it's our right to have military style weapons.
Kill a deer, have a beer, and pull your head out of your ass. After you edit my comment for grammar errors.
Kevin Schaffer, the remarks about grammar were aimed at Mikeb, since we've had some disagreements in the past on the subject. Regarding the 30,000 firearms deaths per annum, more than half of those are suicides. That's a sad event, but not one that bans or restrictions can do much about. A better mental healthcare system would improve the situation. Murders are also not much affected by gun laws, as you would know if you've spent much time looking into the subject. It's not that I don't care. What I know is that no gun control proposal would do what its proponents claim.
DeleteYour problem is that you have a great deal of faith in something that doesn't merit it.
What it shows is that the sheer number of guns out in public is causing deaths.
DeleteGun control laws have worked in American History. In the Wild West cities banned the carrying of weapons in town, and gun deaths went down. The ban on the so called "Tommy Gun" helped take that killing machine off the streets. Saturday Night Special laws, and on, and on....
Mental health? Reminds me of the interview Pierce Morgan did with a leader of a pro gun group. The man was screaming, drooling from the mouth, red faced, full of anger at anyone against his cause. I thought, this is exactly the kind of person I do NOT want to have a gun.
Are you aware that the nation's violent crime rates and murder rates are at roughly 40 year lows? What exactly do you mean when you say more guns are causing deaths? And where's your evidence of the NFA saving lives, or "Saturday Night Special" bans saving lives? What "wild wild west" stats are you referring to so we can talk about it?
DeleteYour admission that you would strip someone of their rights because you don't like what they say on a talk show, is exactly why I don't want gun control laws that give people like you that kind of power.
You're right about one thing, Kevin: Piers Morgan routinely screams, drools, turns red, and spews anger. But when you blame the number of guns in America for our rate of firearms deaths, you offer no solution to the problem. Again, I've seen no solution that would work without being a massive government infringement on many rights, not just those related to guns.
Delete"By the way, none of these things are directly related to the gun-rights argument."
DeleteAs I said, Greg, your obsession with these outside issues, always looking for perceived victories over your opponents in the gun debate tells me you've got a weak position and you need to desperately grasp at anything you can.
"You're right about one thing, Kevin: Piers Morgan routinely screams, drools, turns red, and spews anger."
DeleteThanks for proving what a dishonest jack ass you are.
Mikeb, I care about English grammar, since it's my job and a subject that's important to me. I care about honorable behvior and free expression as well. If you consider caring about those things to be a sign of weakness, that shows the vacuity of your thought.
DeleteKevin, if you watch Piers Morgan, you know I'm right.
You know I was talking about the pro gun guy being interviewed. So your response was just a joke by a jack ass. No surprise. And it should be no surprise to you, that you are treated like the jack ass you are. Anything you have to say on serious issues, is worth shit.
DeleteKevin, you commented about a guest on Morgan's show, but my point was to say that Morgan himself is as you described. Too bad that you're incapable of comprehending sarcasm.
DeleteWhen I speak on serious issues, I back up what I have to say with facts and logic. If you disagree, how about discussing that in a civil manner? Or is that not possible for you?
Cute. Your the one with stupid jokes, grammar problems, comment deletion problems, etc. I did try serious, you came back with shit. Enjoy your fun
DeleteWhere did you try serious? Where did I come back with shit? Your side is great for accusations, but when it comes down to walking through the details, you disappear.
DeleteOf course, most concealed carriers are frightened fat white guys.
ReplyDeleteEverybody knows it.
The few that are married (female companionship to gunloons is a pretty rare commodity) rarely have spouses that carry concealed. So unless said frightened fat white man accompanies his wife everywhere, his wife is certainly braver than he.
Care to back up your nonsense with some actual facts?
DeleteLook in the mirror, Greggy.
DeleteSadly, you will see a fat, frightened white guy who has been a social and professional failure. But, hey, you have guns!
Interesting observation of Greg, Jadegold. I would like to hear your observation of me. I am neither fat nor white, married to the same woman for almost 40 years, four kids, six grandkids (soon to be seven) and I carry with a license, as well as my wife and all my kids. Are we a rarity in your observation? Or what?
DeleteNot really, Texas. You don't always have to be fat to be a frightened white guy.
DeletePlus, being from Texas makes you just about illiterate.
That's really funny!
DeleteSo, Jadegold, you think you know me? I've been a college English professor for more than a decade. I've been in a stable relationship for many years. I have one book and several stories and poems published, with three more books on the way. I'm also not fat or frightened.
DeleteBut you got the white part right.
How about we hear your accomplishments, Jade?
Texas, illiterate, that's pretty funny.
DeleteGreg, your students are mainly products of the Arkansas school system, right? How do they stand up to those from California or New York? How about Mississippi?
DeleteI'll bet yours are closer to their counterparts in the deep south. And what does that say about the teachers?
I wouldn't brag if I were you. You're not teaching in Princeton or Harvard for crying out loud.
The University of Arkansas, for example, has excellent programs. Because you're a bigot, I'll let your comments pass.
DeleteI'll add this: Have you heard of Vanderbilt University? How about Duke? UNC Chapel Hill? The College of William and Mary? Emory? The list can go on and on--all top ranked schools in the southeast.
DeleteAnd here's something else. At my school, the professors teach the classes. At Harvard and so forth, undergraduates get teaching assistants.
When are you going to learn that bigotry never looks good?
I feel sorry for your students. To have such a jack ass as a teacher, who cannot speak seriously about a serious issues.
DeleteTell the truth, Greg. Do you find the level of English of the incoming freshmen a bit discouraging? Do you wonder how some of them got through High School let along into college?
DeleteSome, yes. Some are remarkably intelligent. But I've seen students in many areas, and the same is true wherever I go. There's nothing special about my current state of residence with regard to the students I teach.
DeleteKevin, do you have a purpose here other than to be an insufferable arsehole? But how about you tell us what humanities or English departments you've chaired. The actual department chairs of my schools have respected my ability to teach serious subjects. So far, I have no reason to believe that you are capable of evaluating the same.
DeleteSee above ass hole.
DeleteShow it to your students and have them grade your replies.
You are a joking jack ass and I will address you by that name from now on.
My students know that they have to support claims with facts and logic On that score, your grade's a flat F.
DeleteI did give facts, which you refused to address.
DeleteChanged my mind. The name I will call you by from now on is Ted Nugent.
By Ted
What facts? But hey, if you call me Ted Nugent, that just goes to show what a dolt you are.
DeleteAnd Jade goes off half-cocked again. Texas made the point that he was neither fat nor White and it went right over his/her head.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, most people who are married and have CWP's, their spouses also have one too. My wife and I both got ours together.
Our class was taught the same lessons as the person Mike B quoted in his post and the majority of CWP holders are taught the same.
OK Mr. G., I suppose all the commenters around here just happen to be exceptions to the rule. Is that what you're saying?
DeleteGiven the numbers of carry license holders and the evidence in hand, no, we're not exceptions.
Delete"The evidence on hand," now you're talking.
DeleteThe evidence in question supports my claims about the safety of carry license holders. You keep trying to draw wild conclusions from nothing.
Delete