A new study, coauthored by a libertarian-aligned economist, has found strong evidence that the spread of gun ownership around the United States is a threat to public health. Guns, this research suggests, really do cause people to kill themselves when they wouldn’t otherwise.
Alex Tabarrok, one of the study’s two authors, isn’t anyone’s idea of a progressive. Tabarrok teaches at George Mason University, a famously libertarian-inclined economics department. He’s a fellow at the libertarian Mercatus Institute and one of the lead authors of Marginal Revolution, one of the web’s most famous libertarian-inclined blogs.
Tabarrok and his coauthor, Justin Briggs, put together a bunch of data on gun ownership and suicide. After controlling for a series of potentially confounding factors, Tabarrok and Briggs ran a series of regressions to establish any links between guns and suicides.
But wouldn’t people who don’t have guns just kill themselves in some other way? No, according to Tabarrok and Briggs. “The [gun-suicide remains significant,” they report, “despite also finding significant evidence that gun ownership causes substitution towards gun-suicide rather than other methods of suicide.” Tabarrok breaks this down further: “when gun ownership decreases we see a big decrease in gun-suicide and a substantial but less than fully compensating increase in non-gun suicide.” So, in the end, there’s “a net decrease in the number of suicides.”
As Tabarrok and (also libertarian) Megan McArdle note, this is entirely consistent with what we know about suicide. Far from being a well-thought out plan, suicide is often an impulsive decision rather than a rational choice to end one’s life. In one study McArdle takes a look at, researchers followed up with group of people who were prevented from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. They found that the majority didn’t attempt suicide again — rather, they made one terrible decision and thankfully survived.
Guns are designed to kill people. That makes it easier for people who own them to succeed in killing themselves, even if, like the Golden Gate jumpers, it turns out they don’t really want to die. That’s the underlying logic behind Tabarrok and Briggs’ grisly finding.
I always am impressed when someone is tagged as a libertarian, or libertarian inclined. Its like the person is being graded on a curve. For example, if a "progressive" (liberal) is in favor of free market economics, he becomes tagged like Mr. Tabarrok. And then everyone is supposed to ignore the fact that he is talking about trying to solve a problem by exerting more government control over peoples' rights in the name of reaching some noble goal.
ReplyDeleteThe dead giveaway is the obligatory complaint about the lack of government funding for research which would help justify additional gun laws.
The challenge for both sides is that because one side thinks that gun rights ARE the problem, both sides spend all their time dealing with that. Maybe some of the problems with gun violence could get solved if the second amendment were regarded with the same respect as the first.
Exactly. Calling him a libertarian is supposed to make it all better?
DeleteLet's also note that Japan, Canada, and Ireland aren't named here, even though all three have strict gun control, but Japan's suicide rate is much higher than ours, while those of Canada and Ireland are about the same the that of the U.S.'s.
Is that all you have to say about it? Nothing about the libertarian-leaning man's proof that more guns lead to more suicides, not more gun suicides because that would be stupid, but more suicides.
DeleteMikeb, we've dealt with this many times before. The point here is that if we believe in choice, we have to recognize that suicide is one choice that adults should be able to make.
DeleteKeep in mind Mike, that I haven't seen any quotes by the author recommending more gun control. This is just a straight up study regarding a correlation between guns and suicide.
DeleteThere could likely be a similar claim regarding number of instances of internet bullying and being a member of facebook. But no one suggests regulating the internet because of the first amendment.
The question is how to have an effect on suicide without infringing on other citizens' rights.
Greg, your sick idea about free choice doesn't make sense when people are suffering from temporary mental illness.
Deletess, so what if he didn't say anything about gun control? Isn't the result of the study that more guns lead to more suicides pretty damning for your side?
Mikeb, you keep forgetting that I believe in individual responsibility. If you kill yourself, that's your choice. I won't disrespect you so much as to force you to choose only what I approve of.
DeleteWhy doesn't it lead to more murders? Do the same regressions substituting suicide with murder, and you get nothing. And let's look at some of the gun control complaints about firearms. They can kill from a distance. You can fire successive shots rapidly. High capacity magazines. Theses are complete non-factors in suicide, making guns a better tool for murder- yet we see no correlation.
DeleteFinally, when I say the words "regression analysis" I'm "baffling you with bullshit"- but when someone appears to be on your side they speak God's truth.
Sure, Greg, you believe in individual responsibility except for gun owners who should have little or no restrictions on what they can do with their guns. Leave the gun in an unlocked car, no problem. Let the kid find the gun under the pillow, no problem. Sell your gun to someone who may be a killer without a background check, no problem.
DeleteYeah, you're a champion of individual responsibility.
If a person causes harm to an innocent, either by direct action or by negligence, we have laws already to deal with that. But putting my property into my property isn't either one of those.
DeleteIt's a little hard to get respect with guys like Ted Nugent representing the NRA.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to respect someone who sees one person as definitive of an organization or of a much larger group of Americans.
DeleteHe's a board member for God's sake! He's on film using racist slurs. This is your leader, yes, you are part of his red neck world.
DeleteTed Nugent . . . let's see if we're talking about the same person here. He's one of the hundreds of millions of American gun owners who has never, ever committed suicide--not even once, right?
DeleteSo, what's with this silly yammering about "suicide," again?
The silly yammering was that more guns leads to more suicides. Did you miss that part?
DeleteThe NRA does not speak for gun owners? Are you an NRA member?
ReplyDeleteI speak for myself.
DeleteYes, and I posted many of your criminal comments, which you still have not addressed. I have only asked 6 times, but you refuse. Mathematics: more cars means more deaths from cars. More guns means more deaths from guns.
Delete"Steve," I told you before that if you want to address a specific statement, give a link to the original posting, and I'll deal with them one at a time.
DeleteRegarding your mathematics, it's each person's responsibility to make good choices with any object owned. We have laws to address bad acts. But we don't punish people in advance.
I already did (multiple statements) and you refused to reply. That's your choice, but then you lie about it.
DeleteIf you want to deal with one comment at a time, provide a link and we'll discuss. Otherwise, quit bugging me.
DeleteThat's not me, but I'm sure he read the comments I posted, that you wrote. I now understand why TS called me Steve. I think I'll change the name.
DeleteAs far as your request, bullshit. What does it matter one, or six at a time? You refused more than six times now. You are just a criminal liar.
If that Steve isn't you, why did he answer a statement directed at you by claiming he "already" did that?
DeleteAs I said before he is using my comments to play games with Greg, which is fine by me.
DeleteI remember once a neighbor in a cheap apartment block by the beach cut her wrists. We were all so bored with the idea we went back to our own little worlds and didn't pay her any mind after someone called 911.
ReplyDeleteBy the time the cops arrived, she had already rode her bike to the beach.
What if you were young, passionate and hopelessly desperate? What would you do to kill yourself? Poison? Lover's Leap? Jump off a bridge over a freeway? What if you were old and had an incurable disease? I once knew a guy that jumped out of a five-story window rather than face the day-to-day humiliation of long-term care on a SNF. That's right. He jumped out of a window. Splat. That's what I call balls. Wouldn't a gun be a little bit easier? Oh, that's right. The other suicide at the same SNF was the old gunshot to the temple lying in bed. He could still drive his car. Still buy a gun. Still leave a mess for housekeeping and SDPD. I recently read Franny and Zooey by J.D. Salinger. It speaks of a suicide by older brother, Seymour Glass. Nine Stories also by Salinger, details that suicide on a vacation taken by Mr. Seymour and his young wife in 1948. After confronting his own disgusting sexual preferences, he shot himself in the temple. Beside his sleeping wife who was praying for his recovery after experiences in WWII. The book was copyrighted in 1948. Nothing new here.
Something for you gun enthusiasts. It was a Ortgies calibre .765 automatic. Cool gun, huh? Wouldn't you love to have one for your collection.
Guns. America's favorite suicide. Works every time.
Answer me this: Do you believe only in such choices as society approves of?
DeleteBy the way, a .765 caliber gun would shoot needles.
Actually they would be pretty big needles. As in a bit over three quarters of an inch, Junior used two size conventions, the pistol he mentions comes in 7.65mm, or more commonly called a .32 auto. It would certainly be interesting if handguns came in that size.
DeleteOh, I left off the millimeter on .765. That would be a needle gun. You're right--if it's inches, it's a twelve-gauge diameter.
Delete