Eric Frein is the subject of a 1,000 man search, in response to the killing of one law enforcement officer and the attempted killing of another.Frein has been evading the searchers, including resorting to wearing adult diapers in order to remain vigilant. His dirty didies have been found in the woods by the searchers along with his AK47.
As we are approaching a second week of this manhunt, social media suggests that either Eric Matthew Frein is part of the Sovereign Citizen movement, or at least is receiving social media support and encouragement from it. His beliefs seem consistent with those domestic terrorists and extremists, including their gun obsession and their desire to shoot their fellow citizens.
Pure speculation on my part, but given that bunkers filled with weapons and ammunition are characteristic of the right wing nuttery, and given the ability of Frein to avoid capture during this period while people look for him around the clock, he probably has some sort of longer-term hiding place that he is using, something on the order of an underground bunker.
As Frein continues to be spotted, and as the searchers continue to close in, the order has been given to shoot Frein on sight if he does not surrender, which is consistent with reasonable force by law enforcement under the circumstances.
One more example of why we should have stricter gun control; people like Eric Frein should never have weapons, much less military fire power.
Just curious, dog gone--on what basis should he have been denied a gun?
ReplyDeleteNot defending the man here--I hope they find and arrest him, and if he is, indeed, the one who pulled the trigger, I hope he gets the death penalty.
My question is, is there some conviction in his past, or some violent activity, or would you merely have banned him because of kooky political beliefs before he ever showed signs of actual violence?
Anon,
DeleteBack in '06 I believe Frein was arrested on felony burglary and theft charges for stealing from vendors at a reenactment event. He didn't show for his trial and was arrested as a fugitive and spent just over three months in jail. He was allowed to plead guilty to misdemeanor theft and time served.
Several articles mention that there were two weapons missing from the home where he lived with his parents. No mention is really made of who the actual owners are.
Yes, Frein has a criminal conviction for theft.
DeleteI would add Anonymous that when someone starts talking about what you refer to as 'kooky political beliefs' that include committing murder, much less mass murder, then yes, I think they should not have firearms.
DeleteWhile freedom of speech is important, when it becomes expressing a threat, like yelling fire when there is no fire in a crowded theater, it should cross a line -- and that line should preclude the weaponry to commit murder and mass murder.
If that is inconsistent with our present understanding of the 1A, then maybe we need to alter the 1A to be consistent with other democracies and the sane practices of other free countries, like Canada, where one is held more accountable for that kind of 'speech'.
A felony conviction would seem to be something to mention in your post as what disqualifies him from owning firearms--not insinuations that he's part of the "sovereign citizen" movement.
DeleteAs for your breathless comments about speech calling for mass murder, I'm unaware of that being part of the "Sovereign Citizen" platform. Must be one of the secret points they only reveal after you learn the handshake...
As for the reference to shouting fire in a crowded theater, we do have a standard which is much better articulated than in that throwaway line from Holmes. True threats are not protected speech, and neither are statements calling for or attempting to produce imminent unlawful action.
The silly reasoning of the "Sovereign Citizens" don't typically cross that line--or even the line you want to draw. Sure, some members of the group turn violent or have other violent ideas, but that's no reason to lump all of their silliness into the realm of unprotected speech.
As for your desire to amend the First Amendment to bring it in line with the less protective laws of Canada, the UK, and others, I'm not surprised that you think that way, but I am surprised that you are willing to admit it so freely.
You'll have to pardon the rest of us if we refuse to let you drag us backward and try to remove protections won in a bloody war for independence from the old country.
Proper gun control laws and a one strike you're out policy would ensure that many guys like this would be unarmed.
Delete"A felony conviction would seem to be something to mention in your post as what disqualifies him from owning firearms--not insinuations that he's part of the "sovereign citizen" movement."
DeleteAnon, I haven't heard about anything that would have made him a prohibited person. The felony charges were pled down to misdemeanors. Barring of course DG's or Mikes wishful restrictions on the first amendment or making most violations of the law sufficient reason to bar gun ownership.
Thanks for that update, Sarge. Sounds like I gave DG too much credit on having pulled something up, though I didn't look into it since my point was that she didn't cite an actionable reason for revoking his rights in her initial post. Instead, she talked about his alleged politics, and then doubled down demanding modification of the First Amendment so that she could punish him for badthink.
DeleteMilitary fire power?? An AK47 is a military rifle? Hardly!
ReplyDeleteYes, an AK 47 is a military assault rifle; it may not be the most current military in our armed forces, but it is still used by many countries for regular military and is clearly used widely for military engagement by irregular forces as well. Then there is the bipod sniper gear, which is also military equipment. Frein apparently has sniper rifle(s) and sniper rounds used in the military as well, .308.
DeleteSo, YES, military equipment/fire power.
What is your definition of a sniper rifle DG? So far, all I've heard mentioned is a scoped rifle in .308. Something commonly used to hunt deer with. I happen to own two such rifles. Keep in mind that the only thing that makes a sniper tound different is that its what is called a match grade round. Mainly tighter tolerances for bullet and powder weight. Plus the bullet has a more aerodynamic shape to improve accuracy.
Delete“It’s a .308. It looks like an AK-47 and with a scope,” State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan said."
http://wnep.com/2014/09/17/what-is-a-308-caliber-rifle/
Putting a scope on an AK doesn't really make it a sniper rifle. The 7.62x39 round fired from an AK pattern rifle isn't noted for its accuracy. It is possible that they were referring to a Dragunov sniper rifle. Something a dedicated soviet military enthusiast might be drawn to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle
The Dragunov is a semi-auto rifle only so using the term military firepower doesn't make it special. In the realm of the sniper, while equipment is important, skill and technique is more so.
Oh Noes! He has a .308 sniper rifle--One of the most popular hunting rifles which was adapted from civilian hunting use for use by military and police snipers!
DeleteReally? hunters use sniper bi-pods now? and it's the same as police snipers?
DeleteIsn't the point missed here that this person is a nut job with a SNIPER RIFLE AND AUTOMATIC WEAPON, ATTACKING PEOPLE?
Gun nuts, once again choosing to ignore the point that there are people who have guns that should not have guns, much less certain kinds of guns.
Um, Laci many hunters have been using mono pods (aiming stick, steady pole), bipods and tripods for at least the thirty years that I have been hunting. A more accurate and humane kill is achieved in this manner. Get with the times Laci, your ignorance is showing.
DeleteA 308 AK is not a AK47. A AK47 is a 7.62X39. A AK pattern rifle chambered in a 3.08 is a AK308. Neither one is a automatic military rifle, they are a semi auto civilian model. Just because they look the part does not make them the part except in your dreams.
DeleteDoggone, do you have a black leather jacket and biker boots and call yourself a biker without actually ever owning a motorcycle?
"Really? hunters use sniper bi-pods now? and it's the same as police snipers?"
DeleteBipods aren't exactly hi-tech or new. They've been in use since the first world war, though usually for heavy weapons like squad machine guns. Mike likely even remembers the cheesy bipod for the M-16 issued to automatic riflemen.
I'm personally not a big fan of bipods since they tend to either too tall or too short. In the development of military sniper rifles, they typically were rifles pulled from civilian circles. For example, the current US sniper rifle, the M-24 is just a Remington 700 bolt action rifle.
I haven't seen anywhere that Frein had any automatic weapons. We will likely find out eventually that the "AK-47" is one of the many legal semi-auto versions. And so far, I've only read that about 4 shots were fired total. And he seems to think he doesn't need it since he left it behind at one point.
"Sniper bi-pods"--wow! Of all the things to get upset over--I figured you'd go nuts over the scope or something. I've seen bi-pods on hunting rifles all my life, in addition to the use of aiming sticks, etc. that the other Anonymous mentioned.
DeleteI'll also add that while hunters may not be able to use the bi-pod for every shot while hunting, you either need one of them, or a fancy, expensive cradle to put the rifle in when sighting in the scope so that you can accurately and humanely kill the animal.
As for your question about police snipers--yes. Police and military use basically the same model of .308 used by hunters--they're tight little bolt action guns with no iron sights and with a scope. The only differences are cosmetic ones such as stock material, and that police and military may go for some options such as heavier barrels, barrel fluting, etc. which only hunters with more money, or hunters who plan on taking very long range shots will bother with.
As for your point about him being a nut job with guns--yes, he's a nut job with a hunting rifle and a SEMI-automatic weapon who has allegedly attacked two people and is probably holed up waiting on a last stand. VERY dangerous, but no more dangerous than if he had any other type of hunting rifle and semi-auto rifle. Heck, if he had a lever action hunting rifle with either a bi-pod or a sandbag to rest it on, he might have a higher rate of fire and larger magazine than on this bolt action rifle you are freaking out about.
Edit. "you either need one of them, or a fancy, expensive cradle to put the rifle in when sighting in the scope so that you can accurately and humanely kill the animal."
DeleteI'll add that you can also use a sandbag, or rest the gun on the bench rest, etc. but the more stable your rest, the better you can fine tune the scope for later use--I've used bi-pods to adjust the sights on AR's, then removed them because I didn't need the weight or need the silly thing at all in any other scenario.
"they're tight little bolt action guns with no iron sights and with a scope."
DeleteOne of the modifications made to make the M-24 from a Remington 700 is to add the capability to install back up iron sights in case the scope is broken. That way the rifle can still be aimed. Doesn't exactly make it a super-weapon though.
Did not know that. That's actually a modification that would be nice for hunters. Remember my granddad's story of a time he broke his scope out West and had a close encounter with a mountain lion that thankfully was interested in something else.
DeleteThanks for the info.
It seems a bit odd that a right wing extremist would join a group recreating communist military tactics.
ReplyDelete"The Eastern Wolves specialize in the tactics and battles of Eastern European armies and Frein, a marksman who is the son of retired U.S. Army major, took part in their maneuvers, Kamensky said. "
"Our goal is to not just be a group of guys wearing different camouflage and carrying Kalashnikovs, but to also use authentic tactics and commands that differ from their Western equivalents,"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/accused-cop-shooter-eric-frein-reenacting-rambo-colleague/story?id=25633499
"The Myspace page of Istocni Vuk (translated from Serbian as "Eastern Wolf") shows pictures of Frein engaged in military reenactments as a Serbian soldier. Pennsylvania State Police also believe that Frein made several trips to Eastern Europe, and Frein was pictured in front of the Church of Saint Sava in Belgrade, Serbia, the largest Orthodox Christian church in the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Matthew_Frein
I have to admit, I wasn't aware that Eastern Europe was a popular vacation spot for right wing extremists. There is also a mention of a now shutdown MySpace page with vacation photos. Unfortunately, Frein's page isn't available since I'm also seeing mention on some blogs of other Sovereign Citizen links such as Che Guevara and the 13th Guards, a Soviet rifle division.
My personal belief is that his antigovernment sentiments come from his time spent in jail after being arrested for burglary and theft. Criminals tend to not be fond of the government, and have been known on occasion to shoot at police officers.
However, a better argument based on his interests that we know about tend to lean more in the direction of communists. Something that the Tea Party hasn't gotten around to embracing yet.
You are greatly mistaken Sarge. Re-enactors do not typically embrace the politics of the era they recreate.
DeleteI know a lot of re-enactors from different periods, ranging from primitive societies where they master things like flint knapping, etc. from the early and extremely primitive bronze age to those who do WW II re-enactment.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of organized activity more recent in historic terms of groups.
I wouldn't expect Frein to be any more a communist than I would expect someone in the SCA to be a pro-monarchist in their mundane life politics. That demonstrates a faulty grasp of the history crowd.
"Re-enactors do not typically embrace the politics of the era they recreate."
DeleteFrein certainly cant be considered a typical re-enactor. Is it typical for them to travel to the countries of the actions they recreate?
You seem to default to someone using a gun and not liking the government to be a right wing extremist. As does Laci.
The gun loons who comment here have expressed anti-government ideology constantly.
DeleteBut the gun loons who comment here don't express a desire to go shoot cops or commit mass murder.
DeleteStill, when people make threats, we should take them at their word - and take away their guns.
Yes, it is typical for re-enacters to travel to where the history they re-enact took place.
DeleteOne of my cousins is a civil war re-enacter; his vacation trips are to civil war battlegrounds, for example.
What makes a right wing anti-government extremist is to threaten violence against that government while holding radical right wing views. Do that -- lose your guns, go to jail.
Says dog gone: Re-enactors do not typically embrace the politics of the era they recreate.
DeleteYou might want to mention that to Jadegold. He apparently missed the memo.
"You might want to mention that to Jadegold."
DeleteLets see What Jadegold says,
"To a large extent, and as the article I cited notes, many reenactors claim to be learning more about history. But the opposite is usually true--many reenactor are revising and, in some cases, glorifying that history into something it wasn't."
In fairness, Laci did throw in some caveats mention the need for accuracy. Was DG even posting at the time to potentially correct Jade?
Or perhaps the side you play is only relevant if it conforms to the paradigm of stereotypical right wing extremist.
Right wing?? HA! This tool was a che loving commie worshipping Bolshevik!
DeleteSevere punishment is demanded here. Thanks you let us know this.
ReplyDelete