More Nuts with Guns Trying to Kill Themselves and Other People

Where else? Gun crazy country.  Arizona.

Everybody with a gun sincerely believes THEY need it, that THEY know what they are doing, that THEY are doing something right, important in their firearm interactions with other people.

Free.

Instead they are eroding the freedom of other people, they are making other people less safe, they are a menace to a civil and civilized society by embracing violence - both the fantasy of violence and the reality.

It all seems like a good idea to these people doing horrible things with guns, to them.

Not to the rest of us.

So here we have another suicide that tried to be another mass murder, but thankfully failed.

From MSNBC.com, the AP and the Sun;

Sheriff: Suicidal Ariz couple wanted deputies dead

updated 1/21/2012 7:19:37 PM ET

YUMA, Ariz. — An Arizona couple who committed suicide last month planned to lure sheriff's deputies to their remote, desert home and kill as many as possible before ending their own lives, a top local law enforcement official said, as an eerie series of videos the couple made was released this week.

Yuma County investigators found elaborate plans, both in writing and in video, in a blast-protected area after Jesse Lee and Diedre Firestone's Dome Valley home exploded Dec. 23 while surrounded by officers.
They had planned to blow up the house as a SWAT team entered, Capt. Eben Bratcher told the Yuma Sun (http://bit.ly/AqdfFB ). The couple's bodies were found in the home two days after the explosion. One deputy suffered minor injuries when the blast knocked him down.
"The motive behind their plan is not known, but it was clear they fully intended to murder as many deputies as possible prior to taking their own lives," Bratcher told the newspaper. "These people absolutely had a plan, and I think they wanted to die and make as big of a scene as they could possibly make."
In one of the videos released to the Yuma Sun, the couple are seen sitting on their balcony, calmly discussing what was about to happen while waiting for deputies to respond.
In another, Jesse Firestone, 65, shows a .357 magnum rifle he planned to use and the hole in the front door of the home he was going to fire through. He even mentions some sheriff deputies by name, saying "it's nothing personal. Anyway — adios."
Footage also shows a shrine the Firestones called the "Church of Death," which features a bible, two binders with hand-made covers entitled the "Firestone Gospel," and a picture of Osama bin Laden.
What is not known and may never be is if the explosion actually happened prematurely or if the Firestones changed their minds and decided not to go through with their plans, Bratcher said.
"This could have ended up horribly, and we are grateful none of our guys were seriously injured," Bratcher said. "It was one of those things you wouldn't have ever expected to happen in Yuma. It is insane. You read about this type of thing in the paper happening somewhere else."
Authorities drove to the home on the afternoon of Dec. 23 after a man called the sheriff's office and said he had just shot his ill wife. The man opened fire on arriving officers, and that's when the house blew up.
Before sheriff's officials arrived, Jesse Firestone in a video is seen standing inside his home using a cell phone to call 911 to report that he had just mercifully shot his wife, which was how they planned to lure deputies to their residence. According to that video, Diedre Firestone, 45, had been suffering from "self-diagnosed" breast cancer for the past 10 months, but refusing to get treatment.
"I got to go kill my dogs now," Jesse Firestone is seen saying before he hangs up the phone.
It took two days for a bomb squad to enter the home. They found the main bedroom and living room heavily damaged from the explosion and subsequent fire, with the roof caved in. They also located 15 five-gallon propane bottles near the two bodies. Two propane bottles appear to have bullet holes in them, possibly indicating the explosion was intentional.
___
Information from: The Sun, http://www.yumasun.com

Update on the Georgia Militia Old-Farts Plot to Use Ricin in Mass Killings

It looks like the 'we're just big talking crazy old coots' defense didn't get their saggy old backsides out from behind bars.  I'm guessing that must mean there is some compelling physical evidence to support the taped evidence of their plans, which is what the original search warrant affidavits asserted (yes, I try to read as much of that stuff as I can find).  I don't think the turn of phrase 'digruntles' means what they think it means, as in purchasing the materials to make ricin...

From NPR:

Judge Refuses Bond For Men Accused In Militia Plot

by The Associated Press

text size A A A

November 16, 2011

A federal judge on Wednesday denied bond to the four Georgia militia men accused of plotting terror attacks against government employees, siding with prosecutors who feared the elderly men might lash out against federal officials because they have nothing to lose.
U.S. Magistrate Susan Cole's ruling echoed concerns from federal prosecutors who warned that releasing the men risked a deadly standoff with federal agents who are forced to bring them to court.
"I can only imagine the arrests of these defendants have only heightened their ill will against the government," Cole said after a third day of federal hearings. "I'm concerned there would be government officials and employees in harm's way."
Defense attorneys, who intend to appeal the judge's decision, said the men never intended to live up to the boastful chatter and that the charges accusing them of plotting to use guns, explosives and the biological toxin ricin against federal employees are overblown.
Frederick Thomas, 73, and Dan Roberts, 67, are accused of conspiring to obtain an explosive and possessing an unregistered silencer. Ray Adams, 55, and Samuel Crump, 68, are charged with conspiring and attempting to make ricin.
The four men were arrested in early November after at least seven months of surveillance by an undercover informant who infiltrated their meetings at a Waffle House, homes and car rides. The dozens of hours of recordings the informant made are the linchpin to the government's case against the four.
In the tapes, the four allegedly boasted of a list of government officials who needed to be "taken out;" talked about scattering ricin from a car speeding down a highway past major U.S. cities; and scouted tax offices. One man said, "We'd have to blow the whole building like Timothy McVeigh," a reference to the man executed for bombing a federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people.
Defense attorneys said the conversations were taken out of context and that the men were actually planning to unite various militia groups across Georgia to create a legitimate "governor's army" that would be at the state's disposal.
"It's all a hypothetical," said Jeff Ertel, who represents Thomas, the suspected leader of the plot. "This is not a plan to take action now. This is a plan to take action if we are legitimized and if the government calls us into action."
But assistant U.S. Attorney Robert McBurney said the men took a series of concrete steps toward carrying out a violent plot.
He said the men cased two federal buildings in Atlanta, talked of targeting U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, obtained an illegal silencer, amassed small arsenals of weapons, tried to purchase a briefcase-sized explosive from an undercover agent and attempted to make ricin from castor beans.
"We've moved beyond hypotheticals," he said.
McBurney warned that releasing the men risks giving them exactly what they want: A galvanizing standoff with federal agents whom they could portray as "jackbooted thugs taking action against elderly patriots."
The four played very different roles in the plot, according to court testimony. Thomas was described as the "thought leader" who helped host meetings and recruit new members. He is accused of scouting the two federal buildings with the informant and leading the effort, along with Roberts, to get an illegal silencer and buy explosives from an undercover agent.
Prosecutors said the men brought Crump and Adams into the mix after Roberts talked of obtaining a "silent killer" the toxin ricin, which can be lethal in small doses. Crump had memorized the recipe for the poison, prosecutors said, and Adams had the know-how to make it as a former government lab technician.
Defense attorneys, though, heaped scorn on the informant, who recorded the conversations while on bond on South Carolina charges that he sexually abused two girls and had child pornography. They called him an "instigator" and a "scoundrel" and questioned why he's free while their clients are facing stiff penalties.
And they claimed prosecutors were making too much of idle chatter from elderly men complaining at gatherings in local restaurants and at each other's homes.
"The government doesn't have a strong case. Surely there was talk about ricin, but it was ridiculous," said Dan Summer, who represents Crump. "It was like an old man in the stages of senility talking out of the side of his mouth."
Witnesses called over three days of hearings said the men were loyal to the government and often gave back to the community. Roberts, for instance, had an animal shelter at his home with 20 dogs and 30 cats. And Melissa Adams said her father spent many holidays playing Santa Claus for children.
"He may be intimidating at times, but on the inside he's just a teddy bear," she said of her dad, a big man with a busy beard. "He has his disgruntles just like the rest of the country, with the economy, but that's all they were small disgruntles."

On the same topic: From TPM Muckraker / Georgia:

Frederick Thomas

Feds: Senior Citizen Militia Members Targeted Holder, McKinney

Ryan J. Reilly | November 10, 2011, 6:03AM

Federal prosecutors said Wednesday that four elderly militia members charged in a plot against citizens and federal employees were targeting Attorney General Eric Holder and former Rep. Cynthia McKinney as potential assassination targets.
Holder and McKinney's names were included on a hit list compiled by 73-year-old Frederick Thomas, federal prosecutors said at a bond hearing. Authorities also said Thomas had stockpiled 52 guns and 30,000 rounds of ammunition in his Georgia home. All four suspects pleaded not guilty.
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Topics: Cynthia McKinney, Eric Holder, Frederick Thomas, Georgia, Militia Movement, Militia movement, Militias

Militia movement

Fringe Militia Member Accused In Ricin Plot Called Right-Wing Blogger's Novel 'Far From Fantasy'

Ryan J. Reilly | November 4, 2011, 6:00AM

One of the elderly 'fringe militia' members arrested on Tuesday for allegedly plotting a ricin attack against U.S. citizens and federal employees was a frequent commenter on a right-wing blog and thought a novel written by the blogger that allegedly inspired his plot was likely to come true.
Former Alabama militia member turned "Sipsey Street Irregulars" blogger Mike Vanderboegh said in a post that he never corresponded with 73-year-old Frederick Thomas, the man the feds considered the ringleader of the group. But he did say he believed "Ahab" was Thomas' screen name that he used to leave comments on the website.
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Topics: ATF, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, Fast And Furious, Georgia, Mike Vanderboegh, Militia Movement, Militia movement, Militias

Georgia

Feds: Four Members Of Georgia 'Fringe Militia Group' Plotted Biological Attack On Citizens, Government Officials

Ryan J. Reilly | November 2, 2011, 6:30AM

Four Georgia men who belonged to a "fringe militia group" were arrested by FBI agents on Tuesday and charged with plotting an attack against U.S. citizens and federal employees using the biological toxin ricin.
Authorities say 73-year-old Frederick Thomas of Cleveland; 67-year-old Dan Roberts; 65-year-old Ray H. Adams; and 68-year-old Samuel J. Crump, all of Toccoa, Ga. began meeting in March 2011 as part of a covert group that called itself, well, the "covert group."
Read more »

Topics: ATF, FBI, Fast And Furious, Georgia, Justice Department, Militia Movement, Militia movement, Militias

More Right Wing Anti-Government Gun Nuts, Trying for a Mass Killing...

Remember what I just wrote about right wing authoritarian movements and their politics? Want to bet these old farts are white, badly educated (the ungrammatical use of language suggests that), and big on the issues of the conservative culture wars?   Anti-gays, anti-abortion, anti-Muslim, anti-feminist, etc.? Maybe anti-Mormon.  I'm sure THEY believe they are patriots, not jackass domestic terrorists. 

from MSNBC.com:

FBI: Four militia members plotted to attack buildings, release poison

'I'd say the first ones that need to die is the ones in the government buildings'

By Pete Williams Justice correspondent

NBC News

updated 11/1/2011 8:17:29 PM ET

WASHINGTON — Four Georgia men in their 60s and 70s were arrested Tuesday, accused of being members of a right-wing militia group that plotted to attack federal office buildings and to disperse a deadly biological poison in Atlanta.

Their alleged plot was revealed to the FBI by a confidential informant last spring, and members of the group have been meeting since May with someone they thought was a black-market weapons dealer but who turned out to be an undercover federal agent, according to court documents.
No attacks were ever attempted. Federal officials say the men were disrupted before they could act on the plot.
The documents say the men, Frederick Thomas, 73, of Cleveland, Ga.; Dan Roberts, 67, Ray Adams, 65, and Samuel Crump, 68, all of Toccoa, called themselves "the covert group" and began in March to talk about staging attacks against federal targets including the IRS.
A confidential informant secretly recorded some of the meetings for the FBI.
"I'd say the first ones that need to die is the ones in the government buildings," Adams was overheard saying in an April 16 meeting, according to the FBI.
"When it comes down to it, I can kill somebody," he allegedly said.
Read court documents on ricin allegations (.PDF)
They allegedly obtained a silencer from the undercover agent and plotted to buy explosives. Crump claimed he could produce ricin, a deadly biological agent, and talked about dispersing it from a car driving on an interstate highway, according to court documents.
"Ya get on the trunk of Atlanta, you get up on the north side, ya get on 41, ya throw it out there right on 285, ya go up 41 or 75, go up 75 to get away from it. Keep the heater on, that way keeps the pressure out. Don't roll your window down," he told the informant, according to court documents.
According to federal investigators, Crump had worked for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta in the past doing "maintenance-type services" for a contractor, and Adams used to work for a U.S. Department of Agriculture agency called the Agricultural Research Service as a lab technician.
"While many are focused on the threat posed by international violent extremists, this case demonstrates that we must also remain vigilant in protecting our country from citizens without our own borders who threaten our safety and security," said the U.S. attorney in Atlanta, Sally Quillian Yates, in a written statement.

Right wing extremists.

Want to bet they are also Right wing authoritarian gun lunatics and that every one of them owns one or more firearms?Iwonder howmany of these guys belong or have belonged inthe past to the NRA.

Want to bet they think they understand and support the Constitution, that they know the thoughts of the Founding Fathers?  And a good chance THEY think they are good god-fearing followers of some conservative religion?

Georgia, one of the original 13 colonies; what a shame they don't know better.