Today, Erie City Council voted unanimously to pass a law requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen firearms to the police - joining a growing list of Pennsylvania communities that have passed this common sense reform to help police reduce access to illegal handguns.
By a 7-to-0 vote, Erie Council passed the lost or stolen firearms reporting ordinance at its regular council meeting today. Under the ordinance, firearm owners will have 72 hours to report a lost or stolen gun to the police after they have discovered it missing.
Why would such a thing even require legislation? Wouldn't any responsible gun owner feel conscience bound to report lost or stolen weapons? I suppose not, which is why the Pennsylvania municipalities are enacting these laws and hoping to make it state-wide before long.
Jana Finder, Western Pennsylvania coordinator for CeaseFirePA, noted important legal developments that have occurred since Erie Council began considering this ordinance last spring.
“In June, the PA Commonwealth Court affirmed Philadelphia’s lost or stolen handgun reporting ordinance, and, in July, the Allegheny County Court of Common Pleas threw out the NRA’s lawsuit against the City of Pittsburgh, allowing Pittsburgh’s lost or stolen handgun reporting ordinance to stand.”
“The NRA’s fear and intimidation tactics are not holding up in court,” Finder added.
Why in the world would the NRA oppose this type of legislation? What could possibly be the downside for gun owners? Aren't gun control people and legal gun owners united in their opposition to guns falling into criminal hands?
What's your opinion? Is there a problem with this growing movement among Pennsylvania cities? Or is this evidence of the common ground that gun owners and gun control folks can share?
Please leave a comment.
MikeB,
ReplyDeleteHave you ever thought of visiting websites other than the Brady Campaign or the VPC?
Why not go to the NRA page and FIND out why they oppose the law?
I know it is a strange concept of actually looking for information...but I feel with a little encouragement you might actually be able to do it. Please try, it won't hurt you to visit the NRA's page.
I am opposed to any law that makes a crime out of doing something with no criminal intent and that makes the victim of a crime now the criminal.
ReplyDeleteSo, thief breaks into my house and steals three guns, I notice that two are missing forgetting about the third, I call the police and report the theft. Four days later I realize the third gun is missing so I call the police again and now I am a criminal because I should have reported it a day sooner. So how does this keep a gun off the street?
Tell me, how can this law really do anything to keep guns out of the wrong hands? These laws do nothing except punish otherwise law abiding citizens for being a victim of a crime.
Now if a criminal that is prohibited from possessing a firearm has his guns stolen and he fails to report it, he cannot be charged under these laws. The 5th amendment protects him. They can only charge someone that has no criminal record with violating this law.
What's next? Why don't we just throw rocks at rape victims too?
How about we all take a queue from New Jersey. They actually sued the family of those killed in a car wreck, that included a two-year-old baby girl, for damaging their highway.
When are these liberal moonbats going to stop making up new laws that can only be levied on a otherwise non-criminal?
Fascinating question and post. I often believe the real reason is to push back at any weapons law as hard as you can. (flexing muscle)
ReplyDeleteNo where in here does it explain how law abiding people reporting stolen or lost firearms will help "crack down on illegal handguns."
ReplyDeleteYou are all for logic and common sense mikeb, explain how reporting lost or stolen firearms keeps them out of the hands of criminals? (BTW, if it is stolen by default isn't it already in the hands of a criminal? What does this law add - besides potentially turning the crime victim into a criminal?)
Wouldn't any responsible gun owner feel conscience bount ot report lost or stolen weapons?
I don't know about conscience bound, but I would report anything of value that I wanted to have a chance of recovering it. What about knives? Shouldn't we report those as well? Or how about baseball bats? Wouldn't want one turning up at a crime scene. How about gasoline? Even better, when your car is stolen, you need to report the car as well as the amounts of gasoline, oil and other flammable fluids in the vehicle?
Daisy,
ReplyDeleteWouldn't you push back at laws that are restricting your freedom?
Especially when those laws are designed to restrict your rights based on the criminal actions of others?
Would you like to have to submit to a background check, fingerprints, send in photographs in order to post on your blog?
How about limiting yourself to one post a month? After all, who needs to post more than once a month, right?
There are laws already on the books to deal with the criminal misuse of firearms...or any other tool. In the absence of evidence that gun control laws reduce violence; shouldn't people be allowed their freedom?
Lost or stolen laws actually help criminals. Let's say Gun Trafficker Joe buys 10 guns and sells them to various criminals. Gun Trafficker Joe calls the police and reports the guns stolen. When the guns are found at a crime scene and traced back to him, he's absolved from any responsibility.
ReplyDeleteSo Mike, do you support criminals?
ReplyDeletePassing these "lost or stolen" laws is ILLEGAL.
It's funny, they're passing illegal laws and expecting criminals to abide by them.
Pure lunacy
I'll tell you one thing it would do, which interestingly not one of you guys mentioned.
ReplyDeleteThis law would ensure that a lawful gun owner who sells or gives a gun to a criminal, whether knowingly or not, could no longer claim ignorance when that gun turns up at a crime scene.
The way it is now, he just shrugs his shoulders, like you guys often do, and says "duh, I don't know, guess it got stolen."
This law would make the owners of guns responsible for those guns in a way they wouldn't otherwise be.
"This law would ensure that a lawful gun owner who sells or gives a gun to a criminal, whether knowingly or not, could no longer claim ignorance when that gun turns up at a crime scene."
ReplyDeleteIt's already illegal to give or sell a gun to a criminal.
Actually, it wouldn't do anything of the sort. Since there is a 72 hour window to report from the time of discovery, the law is absolutely meaningless.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a gun stolen or lost and don't discover it missing until it shows up at a crime scene (10+ years later), you are still within the 72 hours - you just discovered it missing when you were notified that it was used in a crime. It would then be up to the state to prove that you knew it was missing before then and failed to report it.
So in the end, this law does NOTHING but harass lawful gun owners by forcing them to defend themselves in court for something that they didn't do wrong. And the people get to pay for the prosecution. Way to fight crime!
BTW, do you have any information on how often The way it is now, he just shrugs his shoulders, like you guys often do, and says "duh, I don't know, guess it got stolen." Personally, I haven't ever heard of one case of this happening, then again, I don't troll the news agencies for every gun story I can find, so perhaps you can provide some.
This law would ensure that a lawful gun owner who sells or gives a gun to a criminal, whether knowingly or not, could no longer claim ignorance when that gun turns up at a crime scene.
ReplyDeleteIrrelevant in Pennsylvania. Selling a handgun to anyone is a crime in PA if you don't go through the Sheriff or an FFL.
Sebastian, Thanks for that important detail. Does that mean you don't have any gun shows there in PA?
ReplyDeleteIn your experience, do gun owners obey the law of no transfers without the FFL or Police involvement? Wouldn't that be the kind of restriction that a lot of otherwise law-abiding gun owners ignore? What do you think?
Sebastian, Thanks for that important detail. Does that mean you don't have any gun shows there in PA?
ReplyDeleteNo. The claim that eliminating private sales is going to eliminate gun shows is spurious. The problem is, the term "gun show loophole" is used because the real target is gun shows. Look at Lautenberg's bill, for example. It does not eliminate private sales, but ads significant regulatory burdens on gun shows, and has such a weak definition of "gun show" that me selling a firearm out of my collection could fall under the requirements. I'd still oppose blanket regulation of private sales, but for different reasons.
In your experience, do gun owners obey the law of no transfers without the FFL or Police involvement?
Those that know about the requirement do. But many do not. It's unbelievable to a lot of gun owners that the state could involve themselves in selling a piece of property to a friend. I'd say compliance with the measure is pretty low, but those not complying generally have no idea they are committing a felony.
When you speak of regulating private sales, this is the vast majority of transactions you'd be prohibiting. I've sold a few long arms to friends privately. People I know can pass background checks because they still buy guns. I would not sell a gun to someone I didn't know.
If gun control folks want a background check on every transfer then they need to address our concerns about that. If they don't, we'll continue to fight this stuff. But you will learn quickly that they aren't interested in an accommodation. It's better to use the issue to get gun shows, or to make the cost of transferring a firearm so high, people don't do it.