Reporting from Washington and Las Vegas - A 66-year-old retiree apparently upset over losing a lawsuit related to his Social Security benefits opened fire in a federal courthouse lobby Monday morning, killing one person and wounding another in a chaotic shootout.
The gunman, identified by law enforcement sources as Johnny Lee Wicks, died from gunshot wounds after fleeing across the street as court officers returned fire.
Is this the case of just another nut or is there a growing trend of disgruntled folks who are heavily armed and are nearing "the edge?"
In 2008, Wicks, who had moved from California to a local retirement home, filed a complaint against a regional Social Security Administration commissioner, contending that his monthly benefits had been reduced by $317 because he was black.
"It's all about race," he wrote in the complaint, although he cited no evidence. "I am no fool."
A lawyer for the Social Security Administration responded in court documents that Wicks' payments had been cut because, as a Nevada resident, he was no longer entitled to a supplement he had received while living in California.
This man went over "the edge." It's exactly the same thing the folks in the video of the New Mexico gun rally were talking about. People commented asking what's wrong with that rally, what did I find objectionable. Well, it has to do with the subtle, and sometimes not-so-subtle, threat these people make. In essence they're saying if certain things happen, too severe gun laws, too much "socialism" from Obama, they will respond with gun violence.
Poor Mr. Wicks went over the edge about his Social Security claim which was denied, proving that people like this don't need reasonable or factual situations to justify their decision to attack. Many gun owners are precariously close to that very same edge. The glib and irresponsible pro-gun writings on the internet are more than enough to push some of them over. And just like the social security decision that Wicks found so unacceptable, an unstable gun owner doesn't need reasonable or factual ideas to lose it.
As an example, Joe Huffman frequently writes that gun-owners today are persecuted in a similar way as the Jews in 1930s and 1940s Germany. Does anyone really believe that? I don't think the gun bloggers, who for the most part are extremely well written and seemingly intelligent folks, do. But the vast majority of gun owners probably do, like the ones depicted in that video the other day.
So, my contention is the Las Vegas incident was not an anomaly but rather an example of a large and growing trend of disgruntled armed people who are going over the edge. These poor characters are aided in their insanity by well-meaning gun bloggers who are continually pushing ideas which may be debatable but which do serious harm to their own cause.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
"As an example, Joe Huffman frequently writes that gun-owners today are persecuted in a similar way as the Jews in 1930s and 1940s Germany. Does anyone really believe that?"
ReplyDeleteNo. I think that's a bit overkill. I think it's more accurate to compare gun owners to black people during the era of Jim Crow. "Gun Free Zone" signs are the modern day "Whites Only" signs.
Some black people were denied due process when accused of crimes, similar to the way closing the so-called "terror gap" will deny due process to some guns owners.
Much like they did to black people, bigots blame guns and gun owners for all the ills of society.
Just as the segregationists believed black civil rights were a threat to law and order, the gun controllers believed armed civil rights protesters are a threat to law and order.
Michael Bloomberg, our modern day equivalent of George Wallace.
And how appropriate is it that the democrat party ends up being the party of both Jim Crow and Gun Control.
AztecRed, I'm glad you agree with me about Joe's Jewish comparison, but I think yours is just about as bad. It's grandiose victimism to imagine yourself as part of a group that's being discriminated against.
ReplyDeleteJoe Huffman is clinically insane. Which is a pretty good reason he shouldn't be allowed any weapon more dangerous than a spork.
ReplyDeleteOf course, Atec Red isn't far behind, claiming "gun free zones" equate to segregation.
Moreover, it's really an insult to the victims of Jim Crow and various Jewish pogroms to pretend that because gunloons can't walk around everywhere with whatever firearm they want, they are being persecuted.
One wonders if Aztec Red would stand up in front of a group of Holocaust survivors and claim that he, too, is a victim who has suffered as much as they. I can only imagine Aztec trying to claim the same in front of blacks who were jailed or beaten or had relatives killed during the Jim Crow-era.
Such claims of victimization is either dishonest or insane.
--JadeGold
Impossible! Federal courthouses are "Gun Free Zones" so they should be super safe.....oh wait...
ReplyDeleteBefore I give AztecRed a little history lesson on bigotry, think it important to note that many groups who actively support gun control are Jewish: the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, B’nai B’rith, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, Hadassah, the Jewish Labor Committee, the National Council of Jewish Women and the Union of American Hebrew Congregations--to name a few.
ReplyDeleteIt should also be noted that the leading black groups--the NAACP included--support gun control.
So what we have here are the leading groups of people who were (and are) victims of genuine bigotry supporting gun control.
In point of fact, many gunloons attack both blacks and Jews. As I noted previously--many gun shows sell or distribute anti-semitic and anti-black materials.
WRT Dems being the party of Jim Crow, Aztec Red omits the fact that when the Dems kicked the Dixiecrats out of the party--they were embraced by the GOP. We shouldn't forget that folks like Jeese Helms, Strom Thurmand, etc. were recently GOP elder statesmen.
--JadeGold
I disagree, of course, with your assertion that it's "irresponsible" of gun rights advocates to point out the long history of rabid hostility to private gun ownership on the part of many in this administration and Congress, but if, in the end, it does turn out badly, we can always go to what I'll call the Mikeb defense--"We were joking."
ReplyDeleteSee--everything's fine now.
Zorro - That's also the Laci defense.
ReplyDeleteOh, she'll wax on about how wonderful it'd be if she had the chance to take up arms (by stealing them I might add) and start offing us despicable "gun cretins" but don't worry, she's just joking... It's all good-hearted fun according to MikeB.
Think of every stereotype there is of gun owners, all the vile slurs aimed at us, and encapsulate it into one blog and you'll have "Laci the Dog's" blog.
It's really no surprise MikeB is good blog buddies with her.
Actually Joe did not say that, he said it's similar to how Jews were treated in germany PRIOR to the early 1930's.
ReplyDeleteThey were persecuted, dehumanized, villified at every opportunity, and used as scapegoats for the problems plaguing germany at the time. They were looked down upon with contempt.
Gun owners in many areas of this country are treated much the same way, particularly in liberal strongholds.
Joe Huffman is clinically insane
ReplyDeleteHmmm, I thought personal attacks were verboten here MikeB? As usual the rules don't apply to your buddies.
One wonders if Aztec Red would stand up in front of a group of Holocaust survivors and claim that he, too, is a victim who has suffered as much as they.
Ah, there's are usual Jade. Aztec, nor anyone else here has equated the persecution that we face as gun owners to that of Holocaust survivors.
You're attempting to make it appear that Aztec made an absurd argument when he did nothing of the sort. We specifically compared it to the way Jews were treated PRE HOLOCAUST. Leave it to you Jade to have absolutely no grasp of what's being discussed.
I've met Joe Huffman and have had the pleasure to sit down and talk to him at length. I am sure that Jade would be incapable of having an adult conversation at the level of Joe & I were he to sit down with us.
Mikeb30200:
ReplyDeleteYou said:
"In essence they're saying if certain things happen, too severe gun laws, too much "socialism" from Obama, they will respond with gun violence."
That's all wrong. What they are "saying" with their gunz is:
"Don't tread on me and don't send your jackbooted federal confiscators after me or I'll have to--regrettably--open a big ol can of 5.56 whupass!"
See, they just want the scheming authorities to know that they will protect their own interests, pre-emptively, if necessary.
I have to admit I agree with JadeGold about calling personal firearms ownership "a civil right".
ReplyDelete"Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness"
Isn't the use of lethal force as a primary option antithetical to life? Aren't you saying that one life is more valuable than another?
Also, you group gun owners as a solid block who are all opposed to restrictions on firearms, which is completely incorrect.
The disgust is toward those gunowners who promote and condone this sort of behaviour. By failing to address this issue and claiming "right", you are a part of the problem. Hence the "bigotry".
"Before I give AztecRed a little history lesson on bigotry..."
ReplyDeleteNo need to. I've got parents and grandparents who lived through enough Jim Crow to make me more than qualified on the subject. And i'm sure any lesson you'd give would be filled with your trademark JadeMath and other assorted fallacy.
"...think it important to note that many groups who actively support gun control are Jewish: the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, B’nai B’rith, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, Hadassah, the Jewish Labor Committee, the National Council of Jewish Women and the Union of American Hebrew Congregations--to name a few.
It should also be noted that the leading black groups--the NAACP included--support gun control."
No one said minorities couldn't be bigots themselves. The long-standing animosity between both blacks and jews should stand as testament to that. So it's no surprise that you can find minority groups that are also for gun control.
"So what we have here are the leading groups of people who were (and are) victims of genuine bigotry supporting gun control."
Or a typical case of the slaves becoming the oppressors.
"In point of fact, many gunloons attack both blacks and Jews. As I noted previously--many gun shows sell or distribute anti-semitic and anti-black materials."
And I bet many jewish and black organizations distribute anti-gun material. See how that works? All of your "blah blah many gunloons" fallacies can be turned around and be equally valid for anti-gun loons. That's what happens when you deal in fallacy rather than facts.
"WRT Dems being the party of Jim Crow, Aztec Red omits the fact that when the Dems kicked the Dixiecrats out of the party--they were embraced by the GOP. We shouldn't forget that folks like Jeese Helms, Strom Thurmand, etc. were recently GOP elder statesmen."
And yet the democrat part is still home to bigots. Only instead of hating black people, they hate black guns. They essentially replaced Robert Byrd with Carolyn McCarthy. Oh wait... They didn't. They still have both of them.
"It's grandiose victimism to imagine yourself as part of a group that's being discriminated against."
ReplyDeleteSo gun owners aren't being discriminated against? Every one of those comparisons I made are accurate.
I'll admit that anti-gunners haven't started lynching gun owners yet, but you do want to "poll tax" us out of our rights.
Mike W. beat me to it.
ReplyDeleteAztecRed's comparison of "gun control" laws to Jim Crow laws is spot-on. Some of the very first gun laws in the U.S. were implemented in order to disarm blacks, thus enabling their continued oppression.
ReplyDeleteThe Klan of the 19th Century could be considered America's first "gun control" organization. The Brady Campaign must be bursting with pride.
"Isn't the use of lethal force as a primary option antithetical to life? Aren't you saying that one life is more valuable than another?"
ReplyDeleteNo, because there are times when you have to kill someone to save others.
And yes, that is saying that one life is more valuable than another. Egalitarianism is only an ideal, not a reality. In a fantastic perfect world, everyone would be of equal value and no one would need a gun. But in the real, imperfect world, there are some people who are no different than crazed animals, who go around preying on those who are weaker than them. And they should be put down like the crazed animals they are. That's where firearms come in.
Firearms are a force multiplier. And in some cases, even a force equalizer. Firearms are the claws of the prey, used to fight off the crazed animals that would victimize them. It gives the weak a fighting chance against the strong.
So firearms actually help move the world towards your ideal of egalitarianism where everyone is of equal value. Because without firearms, the weak would be of lesser value, the strong (criminal or not) would be of more value, and the weak would essentially live at the whim of the strong. Not the kind of world you want to live in if you're a woman, disabled, or a minority of some sort.
And that is why firearms are a civil rights issue. Not just the rights of gun owners, but the right of all people would be otherwise be slaves or victims in a world where the strong dominated the weak.
democommie, Yeah, that old "whupass" mentality is something.
ReplyDeleteMike W. said, "Actually Joe did not say that, he said it's similar to how Jews were treated in germany PRIOR to the early 1930's."
Is that a fact, Mike? I don't think so, and what you're attempting to do is nitpicking and spinning. At least AztecRed said this comparison is a bit of "overkill."
Zorro said, "The Klan of the 19th Century could be considered America's first "gun control" organization. The Brady Campaign must be bursting with pride."
ReplyDeleteThe KKK COULD be considered that especially if you wanted to malign the Brady Campaign like this. Or you could be a little bit more reasonable in your remarks.
Are you supporting the comparison between persecuted gun owners of today and persecuted Jews of the 1930s and 1940s or the blacks of the past?
AztecRed said, "No, because there are times when you have to kill someone to save others."
ReplyDeleteActually I don't think there are. I've been around the block a few times, and I've never had one of those. But, as I mentioned before, if I'd been carrying a gun all that time, I surely would have mistakenly thought I was facing that situation, and more than once.
How about you, Aztec? How many times have you run into a situation where you had to kill someone to save your own life or the life of another?
AztecRed said, "No, because there are times when you have to kill someone to save others."
ReplyDeleteActually I don't think there are
So basically you and Laci both believe that it is NEVER Ok to kill someone in self-defense or defense of others?
Justifiable homicide is always wrong?
Mike W: I seriously doubt Joe Huffman is capable of adult conversation as he is clinically insane.
ReplyDeleteAztec: Your answer appears to that because virtualy all the major US Jewish and African-American organizations strongly support gun control--they are all bigots. Thus, virtually all Jews and African Americans are bigots because most align themselves with these organizations.
Have you any sense of how ridiculous you sound?
Other whoppers from you:
" The long-standing animosity between both blacks and jews should stand as testament to that."
What long-standing animosity? Are you aware the NAACP was in part founded by the Jewish community and was and is greatly financed by that same community? In fact, during the Civil rights era of the 1950s/60s, half the civil rights attorneys in the deep South were Jewish and it's estimated half the freedom riders to MS in 1964 were Jewish.
"Or a typical case of the slaves becoming the oppressors."
hahahahaha....yes, we're all being oppressed by blacks.
"And I bet many jewish and black organizations distribute anti-gun material."
So, you equate policy differences with racism? IOW, you see a university study correlating gun ownership with higher levels of gun homicide as the same as a tshirt celebrating blacks getting lynched?
Wow.
--JadeGold
Mikeb says: "The KKK COULD be considered that especially if you wanted to malign the Brady Campaign like this. Or you could be a little bit more reasonable in your remarks."
ReplyDeleteActually, I don't think it's necessary to malign the Brady Campaign--I think they do a pretty good job of it themselves, when they respond to a mass shooting by sending out frenetic fund raising appeals saying "Charlton Heston's ghost is machine gunning black children--send money now!!!"
I would never argue that gun owners are currently treated like the Jews of Hitler's Germany. I'm not a regular reader of Mr. Huffman's work, and am thus not in a position to judge whether he made such a claim, or if Mr. Huffman's position is as Mike W. described it--that the level of bigotry faced by American gun owners is, in some circles, akin to that faced by Jews in Germany pre-Hitler. That, I find quite plausible, but I must admit to very little knowledge about the level of anti-semitism in pre-Hitler Germany.
I'll answer your other point in a second comment.
Mikeb asks: "Are you supporting the comparison between persecuted gun owners of today and persecuted Jews of the 1930s and 1940s or the blacks of the past?"
ReplyDeleteAs I tried to make clear before, I don't think American gun owners are facing anything much like an American Holocaust, and have never tried to claim that they are.
I do stand by my claim of a close relationship between Jim Crow laws and "gun control" laws, based in part on the easily demonstrable fact that some of the very first gun laws in the U.S. were targeted specifically and explicitly at blacks.
Unfortunately, progress away from that national disgrace has been far less than it should be. Blacks still are disproportionately affected by the scourge of restrictive gun laws, by virtue of the fact that such a large proportion of blacks live in areas with the most draconian gun laws in the U.S. That's without even getting into NYC's "stop and frisk" policy, which harasses minorities vastly disproportionately when compared to whites--all to "get guns off the street" in the name of "public safety."
The worst part of the whole sick joke, of course, is that many blacks are complicit in their own persecution, with the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons, etc. of the world all working tirelessly to keep blacks disarmed, and duping others into joining those efforts. The KKK of the 19th century would be gleefully incredulous at having such allies (albeit unintended ones) in the black community.
Zorro's drinking some of the AztecRed crazy juice.
ReplyDeleteApprently, he believes folks like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are so compelling and persuasive to all black people that they can't help but be swayed to their nefarious agenda. And blacks must be super gullible that when Sharpton says something--they all just mindlessly follow.
After all, it's inconceivable that blacks might be following policies they believe are in their own self-interest. Only whites can do that, right, Zorro?
"easily demonstrable fact that some of the very first gun laws in the U.S. were targeted specifically and explicitly at blacks."
Actually, the first gun laws in this country also excluded non-whites, non-Christians, non-males and those who were judged to be of the wrong "character."
Of course, this is a pretty odious argument by the gunloons. It insinuates that slavery could have been prevented by gun ownership--a laughable notion. It ignores the fact slavery was created and fostered by denying blacks access to virtually all institutions of political power.
And it ignores the fact the NRA and many gunloon groups have few minorities in their numbers. This is unsurprising given the fact the NRA tends to portray minorities as gang criminals and terorists. (see the NRA publication "A Nation at Peril" sometime.)
--JadeGold
Correction: the NRA publication should read "Freedom in Peril"
ReplyDelete--JadeGold
One distinct difference between the BC and the KKK is that the KKK was created to instill fear while the BC was created out of fear.
ReplyDelete"Actually I don't think there are. I've been around the block a few times, and I've never had one of those."
ReplyDeleteBeing a heterosexual white male, you're granted a fair bit of protection from the evils of the world. After all, that makes you a part of the ruling class.
Surely you've seen a war or two if you've been around that long. The perfect example is the dropping of the A-bombs on Japan. Had we not dropped those bombs, a ground invasion of Japan would have been a blood bath. The perfect example of killing some to save others.
"But, as I mentioned before, if I'd been carrying a gun all that time, I surely would have mistakenly thought I was facing that situation, and more than once."
How do you know it would have been a mistake? How do you know weren't really in a life or death situation and simply got lucky?
"How about you, Aztec? How many times have you run into a situation where you had to kill someone to save your own life or the life of another?"
I haven't, but that's not a guarantee that I never will.
"Aztec: Your answer appears to that because virtualy all the major US Jewish and African-American organizations strongly support gun control--they are all bigots. Thus, virtually all Jews and African Americans are bigots because most align themselves with these organizations."
ReplyDeleteHow do you know "most" blacks and Jews associate with those organization? Surely you have some numbers to back up that claim. Or is that JadeMath?
You see, some of us learned from the past and chose not to follow in the foot steps of our oppressors. I'll leave the disarming of people (both white and non-white) to the people who came up with the idea: The bigots.
"What long-standing animosity? "
You don't talk to many black people, do you? I'd say after the Stormfront crowd, black people are probably the next biggest subscribers of Zionist "Jews taking over the world" conspiracy. However, that's me engaging in JadeMath, as I don't have numbers to back up my claim. But turnabout is fair play, right?
Then there was the Crown Heights Riot, the ADL suing HUD because they were employing companies owned by NOI members to provide security in black neighborhoods, Jesse Jackson's "Hymietown" affair, etc.
"So, you equate policy differences with racism?"
Considering racism in America was the policy, yes. Jim Crow, Black Codes, weren't they all just policy and opposition to them just "policy differences".
No. Of course not. Racism, even if it's the policy, is bigotry. And the civilian disarmament policy is no different. It's bigotry as well.
"IOW, you see a university study correlating gun ownership with higher levels of gun homicide as the same as a tshirt celebrating blacks getting lynched?"
No. I see a university study correlating gun ownership with higher levels of gun homicide the same as J. Philippe Rushton's "Race, Evolution, and Behavior: A Life History Perspective".
"Apprently, he believes folks like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are so compelling and persuasive to all black people that they can't help but be swayed to their nefarious agenda. And blacks must be super gullible that when Sharpton says something--they all just mindlessly follow."
ReplyDeleteYou seem to think the same about the NAACP and black people.
AztecRed admitted, "I haven't, but that's not a guarantee that I never will."
ReplyDeleteWell, you know what that's like, man.
Yes, Joe Huffman is clinically insane but, holy jeez, Aztec Red ain't far behind on the crazy train.
ReplyDeleteFirst, he denies that most blacks align themselves with groups like the NAACP, Urban League and the like. Yet, he claims that when Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton speak, all blacks follow lemming-like.
Then AzRed uncovers a heretofore unknown race war between Jews and blacks. This despite many black groups having been founded, financed by, and aligned with major Jewish groups. Next, AzRed will be telling us how fluoridated water is robbing us of precious bodily fluids.
Then he equates public policy with bigotry. By such logic, child pornographers could claim pornography laws to be bigotry. Heroin users could claim drug laws to be bigotry. The list goes on.
And, no, serious scholars do not believe dropping the A-bombs on Japan was necessary.
--JadeGold
"First, he denies that most blacks align themselves with groups like the NAACP, Urban League and the like."
ReplyDeleteBecause you have no proof of it.
I mean, there are 38 million black people in America, yet only 300,000 members in the NAACP of any color. So if "most" black people align themselves with the NAACP, they aren't doing a very good job of showing it. You have a (5X) higher percentage of gun owners who are in the NRA, yet you claim all the time that most gun owners don't align themselves with the NRA.
"Yet, he claims that when Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton speak, all blacks follow lemming-like."
Actually, that's your JadeLogic being used against you. You assume most black people align themselves with the NAACP lemming-like, so why can't they follow Jackson and Sharpton lemming-like?
"Then AzRed uncovers a heretofore unknown race war between Jews and blacks. This despite many black groups having been founded, financed by, and aligned with major Jewish groups. Next, AzRed will be telling us how fluoridated water is robbing us of precious bodily fluids."
You only gave me one anecdote to support your theory. I gave you three. By JadeRules, I win.
"Then he equates public policy with bigotry."
Because it is.
"By such logic, child pornographers could claim pornography laws to be bigotry. Heroin users could claim drug laws to be bigotry. The list goes on."
There is a slight difference, Jade. Heroin and child porn aren't legal. Guns and being black are, despite the efforts of bigots to denigrate both. My comparison is quite a bit more valid than yours.
"And, no, serious scholars do not believe dropping the A-bombs on Japan was necessary."
And had we listened to those scholars, WWII would have had a much higher body count.