Sunday, September 11, 2011

Oh, Look! Another mass shooting,
with a 'possible semi automatic' firearm

These weapons should not be allowed, and there should be extra penalties for their criminal use.

Two killed, 22 injured in shooting at Florida nightclub s below 

updated 9/10/2011 4:04:21 PM ET 2011-09-10T20:04:21
At least two gunmen armed with possible semi-automatic weapons opened fire outside a Florida nightclub early Saturday morning, killing two people and injuring 22, according to police. A witness described panic and chaos inside the Club Elite in the town of Palmetto south of Tampa.
"I was on the floor trying not to die," said Chip "Blu Chip" Hunt, a promoter who works with the club management. "I was between one who got shot in the back of the head and one that got killed and one gentleman that got Bayflighted (airlifted) out."
Killed were Gwenette Matthews, 38, of Bradenton, and Trayon Goff, 25, of Palmetto, according to Palmetto police spokesman Scott Tyler.
Tyler said the shooters were outside the club, but some bullets passed through the nightclub's open front door. Police believe at least one of the shooters was on foot and disappeared in a getaway car.
Hunt, who promoted the club's Friday night "Grown & Sexy" event, said Matthew was socializing inside the club with her sister and was killed by a bullet that came through the front door.
Hunt said the torrent of bullets seemed to be aimed at Goff who was outside, sitting up against the front wall of the building.
"The wall is like Swiss cheese," said Hunt. "He had so many wounds it was crazy. He got 75 percent of the shots. That's the one they was after."
Hunt estimated 150 people were inside the club. Hunt said a security guard, who he said was hit in the back by one bullet, made sure every patron was at least 25 years old and dressed up for the special event.
Hunt said Goff was in a group of younger people who had gathered outside the club. Of those, "he was the only one that got shot (critically). I don't know if he tried to run and that's why the bullets came inside the club," Hunt said.
Tyler said investigators have not yet named suspects or identified a target or motive.
Tyler said most victims were treated and released. Six people were flown to a trauma center in St. Petersburg and one remains in very critical condition, he said.


  1. Did you see Trayon Goff's mug shot?

    How could this nice man piss off a couple of usually inert semi-automatic weapons ?

    That's it. We're just going to have to shut down Florida nightclubs, because they attract evil semi-automatic weapons.

    (Good luck with your futile push to damage the 2nd Amendment, thankfully an impossible chore. And, even if you did manage to curtail the 2nd Amendment, I'd want to go after your 1st Amendment right to so-called 'free speech' next. It's only fair; and what could you do about it, really?)

  2. Clearly Ser8, you erroneously believe you can tell who is good or bad by looking at them.

    You can't. That is ignorant.

    I see no reason to shut down nightclubs; night clubs didn't kill anyone, guns did --- or did you miss that part? There are lots of night clubs where no bullets harm people. People with guns do that.

    My efforts to promote the original intent of the 2nd Amendment appear to be doing just fine, btw. I'm a syndicated blogger; all kinds of people buy what I write, including think tanks and academic institutions. You? I'm guessing not so much; your readers are limited to the low information gun nuts pretty much apparently.

    Beyond that, I see from my stat counter that I get read by the offices of members of Congress, and agencies like the DoJ, as well as a variety of state offices across the country.

    So, I'm pretty confident that I'm able to accomplish more by persuasion, sound analysis, and good research than you are, or that anyone is able to do by carrying weapons, concealed or openly visible.

    You can TRY to go after my first amendment rights, but I don't think you can do much. Although the political right DOES seem to want to try...with this.

    You know what brought me to the attention of the syndication people, Ser8? It was something I wrote about the propsed changes to the U.S. Constitution, through amendments. You know who wanted to significantly alter that Constitution, to change it from the original intent? It was conservatives like you. It was the right that came up with more amendments, and with amendments that made more extreme changes which would remove rights and freedom.

    So don't speak to me about Constitutional rights; you don't know or understand them. More than that, you are a fearful person, and I am not. So I win before you ever get started.

  3. IsS Serr8d an idiot?

    How could this nice man piss off a couple of usually inert semi-automatic weapons ?

    He's dim enough to mention that these were more than just ordinary "inert objects" which are not harmful.

    They are weapons.

    Weapons by their nature are not harmless, they are intended to injure or kill.

    Likewise, firearms are not just harmless objects, their purpose is to injure, kill, or otherwise be destructive.

    Yes, their destructive abilities can be kept to a minimum, but they are still destructive objects.

    Get it right, Serr8d if you are going to try to play the propaganda game and make guns look harmless.

    But, that only works when people don't recognise what you are trying to do.

    Unfortunately, when you say they are weapons, the cost to society is far too apparent.

    As for free speech: sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

    Alas, the same can't be said for bullets.

  4. Shitstain8:

    It's always nice to have a waste of oxygen and protoplasm like yourself stop by to remind us that TS and FatWhiteMan are sane--if a bit delusional about gunz.

    So, now you're using Val Kilmer's "Doc Holliday" pic for a gravatar? Why does it not surprise me that a dick like you sees yourself as a consumptive gunfighter. Oh, wait, I know--because you're an asshole.

    Thanks for stopping by.

  5. Don't you own a 'possible semi automatic' firearm, Dog gone?

  6. I see how you run this far-Left blog. If I left comments like this 'democommie' organism, containing nothing but ad hominem and foul-language invective, they rightly wouldn't be published.

    That you publish his comments definitely puts you in the 'upper class' of blogs; and seeing such comments should go over real well in the offices of any DOJ or congressional representatives you say read you.

    As for 'looking' at Trayon Goff's mug shot and making character determination, well, it is a mug shot. And likely his attackers have mug shots as well, and probably were in violation of existing gun laws.

    Tell you what: you get a better handle on prosecuting and jailing lawbreakers possessing weapons before you come after those of us who don't break any laws, before you try to change things.

    I'm pretty sure you won't be able to.

    (And look again at that beautiful comment you deem proper, as evidenced by it's publication, the one with the foul language. How does that help your blog seem sane, really?)_

  7. Serr8d, did you know that prevention cost far less than doing nothing does in the long run?

    Prevention costs far less than locking these people up as well.

    But, ultimately, you'd rather pay the high cost of incarceration and the other associated costs of gun violence than work on prevention.

    That's pretty stinking pathetic.

    So, these "inanimate objects" end up being fairly costly to society in the long run.

    The hope is that Congressional and governmental types listen to reason, but they usually don't.

    In fact, it's the politicians who are more interested in getting your vote by saying the types of things you want to hear who end up making idiotic policies.

    Those who can get out of the US are getting out of the US.

  8. As for Democommie's comment--reread it and try to understand what he is saying.

    I realise it may be tough for you, but try.

  9. But the thing is...these inanimate objects are legal in these United States of America, by force of existing law; the criminals who misuse them are not. If guns were taken away, you'd still be left with the criminals who misused them; criminals who need incarceration. It would be a shame to give up something that's legal and still have left the criminal element, as they would still find ways to be criminals.

    Best to try to change the criminals before they 'turn'. If we were allowed to parent kids as parents parented kids in previous generations; if schools were allowed to discipline kids as needed, with corporal punishment; if religion had remained a strong reservoir of community morality and not be attacked in public forums by the party of atheism, then we'd have less of these rabid criminals. But no, the LeftLibProggs changed all of that for the better, didn't they?

    As far as re-reading that vile creature's comment, I quit after the very first word. There's nothing he has to say of any use or value, if that's his lead. That should've been enough to keep that comment unpublished.

    Why else guard your comments with moderation, if you allow such as that to pass?

    If the creature wants to meet me on fair ground, in an open forum, say, protein wisdom where I'm a regular, well, it can bring it. I'll be his huckleberry, as I have proved in many open forums prior.

  10. They are not "inanimate objects" they are weapons, which when used properly harm, kill, or destroy.

    calling them merely "inanimate objects" misstates the issue.

    If it were merely an "inanimate object" which was purely harmless, you wouldn't care less.

    While legal, they are somewhat regulated. Perhaps not as strictly regulated as necessary for weapons which produce serious injury or death and cost society as much as they do.

    Please stop using the term "inanimate object" since you have lost your propaganda advantage with that term and only show yourself up for being an idiot by using it.

    Then, you go to a simplistic idea of disciplining children.

    Even worse you are ignorant that you live in a secular country per the Governing document and supreme law of the land, the constitution. You will need to work within a secular framework rather than attempt to impose religion upon others.

    Perhaps, you should move to a theocracy such as Iran if you wish to impose religion on others, but it is unconstitutional in the US.

    Since you prove yourself to be ignorant--I will have to explain democommie's comment.

    Doc Holliday was a weakling, he suffered from consumption. He was also a criminal. Unfortunately, you prefer the mythology of the gunfighter to the reality.

    That is something which colours your opinions.

    It is highly unpersuasive to those who know better.

    If you argue as well in other forums as you do here, then I can assume that you are equally unpersuasive and wrong.

  11. I see that protein wisdom is a "libertarian" and Conservative forum.

    Libertarianism is basically anarchy, although more likely to hide fascistic tendencies than to be true anarchy.

    Conservative is an odd term in the US. It has come to mean idiocy--especially when promoted by Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin.

    Nothing I am interested in. I prefer true conservatives, but they are few and far between in the US.

  12. My avatar is just that, an inanimate avatar. It can't hurt you. Nor can guns hurt anyone, unless misused by criminals. Guns in the hands of good people, police and citizens alike, are forces of good.

    It's the criminals who are your enemy. The criminals who will remain your enemy, and who would find ways to harm society even without guns. That what they do; that's who they are. Their existence is what's needing to be corrected, early in life if possible.

    Re-read our original and best founding document, the Declaration of Independence, the one that truly states who we are and what we're about, the one delivered to the King of England that started the American Revolution. That's the real American spirit, that included references to our Creator, and our deference to Him. Not until later did secular devices emerge, and not until much, much later did the Republic start to weaken; FDR and LBJ were harbingers of the LeftLibProgg processes that've brought our Republic to near-fiscal-end times.

    It's not our Constitution that's flawed; it's the political looters and the weak, self-centered un-American moochers who've figured out how to get monies from the Treasury. Political hacks who buy votes. Our entire political system is corrupt, having sold out to the corporatocracy.

    We are at a point where neither political party represents classically liberal, middle-class Americans such as myself. None of 'em, really.

  13. Wow,you do spout shit Serr8d!

    Your avatar is of a "Wild West Gunslinger" from a film. If you do not realise that it represents you than you are an idiot.

    Guns harm, even in the hands of good guys.

    They do not protect as numerous cases prove--for example, the infamous Meleanie Hain. They can harm even in the hands of "law abiding" citizens.

    The Declaration of Independence is a historic document without legal value. That you don't know this only demonstrates your ignorance.

    The Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    You are ignorant.

    Your posts demonstrate your ignorance.

  14. BTW, further evidence of your ignorance Serr8d. There were four main purposes of the Declaration:

    1) Getting reluctant colonists on board
    2) Explaining the colonists' position on the purpose of government
    3) Listing the colonists' grievances against King George III 4) to show the legitimacy of their actions to others

    George III never saw the document until far later (if ever). On July 4th, 1776, George III, king of England, wrote in his diary, "Nothing of importance happened today."

    As for politics, you seriously demonstrate ignorance, but it will take a depression caused yet again by the policies you advocate for you to understand that.
    To encourage foreign nations to help them

  15. Subr8ed wrote:
    "the thing is...these inanimate objects are legal in these United States of America,"

    These things are legal, under very narrow and specific circumstances, and not for all people. You are too braod in your description to the point of being inaccurate and misleading. Further, marshmallows are 'inanimate objects', but it would again be a false argument to claim that category applies equally to all inanimate objects, as Laci so ably noted. Define them by use, not too broad a category so as to be misleading and inaccurate.

    Then we have this crock o' shit from him:"Nor can guns hurt anyone, unless misused by criminals."
    Bullshit. The stats on violence to children, for instance, is a prime example of how many people are hurt by people OTHER than criminals.
    is one source. Injury and fatalities to women are just as bad.
    For those unwilling to follow the link, let me excerpt the data primarily for Illionois : FACT: In 2007, incidents of gun murders, gun suicides, and unintentional shootings in Illinois killed 150 children and adolescents ages 19 and younger, a 2.6% decrease from the 2006 total of 154 in this age group.

    (Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2010)

    FACT: Nationwide for 2007, gun violence killed 3,067 American children and teens ages 19 and under, a decrease of 4.7% from the nationwide 2006 total of 3,218.
    The total number of children killed in 2007 included 2,161 homicides, 683 suicides, 138 unintentional, 25 legal intervention, and 60 undetermined intent. This means that an average of almost 9 young people are killed each day by guns in the U.S.
    (Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2010)

  16. to continueFACT: In 2007, a total of 683 young Americans ages 10-19 committed suicide with firearms, decrease of 11% from the 2006 total of 763 youth gun suicides. Unlike suicide attempts using other methods, 92% of suicide attempts with guns are fatal, meaning a temporarily depressed teenager will never get a second chance at life.

    (CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2010; Wintemute, et. al., “The Choice of Weapons in Firearm Suicides,” American Journal of Public Health, Vol 78, No. 7, July 1988, p. 824)

    FACT: The firearms used by American youth ages 19 and younger in 90% of firearm suicide attempts and completions, and in 72% unintentional firearm deaths and injuries, were stored in the residence of the victim, their relative, or their friend. On average, 68% of suicides for youth ages 15-24 are committed with guns.

    (Grossman, DC, Reay DR, Baker SA. “Self-inflicted and unintentional firearm injuries among children and adolescents: the source of the firearm.” Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine, August 1999;153:875-8; American Association of Suicidology, Washington, DC, 1998)

    Suicides are typically the result of illness -- depression -- not criminality, and the reason that it is such a uniquely damaging problem for teens is the particular differences and vulnerability specific to the teen brain as it differs from the brain of a mature adult. But the UNINTENTIONAL numbers are far too high as well.

    FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns.

    (Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, 1995)
    FACT: More than 3,500 students were expelled in 1998-99 for bringing guns to school. Of these, 43% were in elementary or junior high school. This means that, in a 40-week school year, an average of 88 children per week nationwide are expelled for bringing a gun in school. These figures include only the children who get caught.

    (U.S. Department of Education. Report on State Implementation of the Gun-Free Schools Act: School Year 1998-99. October 2000, p.2)
    Those are pretty scary statistics about what you dishonestly term harmless inanimate objects. They are anything but, nor are the victims or the people using these guns adequately defined as criminals.

    You, sir, are dishonest in your argument, and damnably inaccurate besides.

    But I'm just getting started taking apart your bullshit.

  17. "I see how you run this far-Left blog. If I left comments like this 'democommie' organism, containing nothing but ad hominem and foul-language invective, they rightly wouldn't be published.'

    Well, you don't have to read them. You could do the decent thing and stay under your fucking rock.

    "We are at a point where neither political party represents classically liberal, middle-class Americans such as myself. None of 'em, really."

    Thankfully, we are not yet at the point where a lying scumbag such as you is able to fool everyone.

    "My avatar is just that, an inanimate avatar. It can't hurt you. Nor can guns hurt anyone, unless misused by criminals. Guns in the hands of good people, police and citizens alike, are forces of good".

    Wthout your guns you're afraid of the world. When you have your guns you think you're a match for the "bad people". Too bad, so sad, untrue.

    Laci The Dog:

    Shitstain8 is concern trolling with his second comment. He's a hatefilled bigoted piece of shit--a fellow slimetrailer of Weer'd Beard and mikeyW.

    His hatred and bigotry first became apparent to me when Steve Gilllard died and he and his posse of pussies whooped it up after Steve's death. He's dropped a few turds in the punchbowl at my blog and some others but his net effect is zero.

  18. Then our commenter subpar writes: "It would be a shame to give up something that's legal and still have left the criminal element, as they would still find ways to be criminals.

    Specious and inaccurate argument. In countries where there are more restrictive gun laws, there are fewer people committing crimes with guns, and more people surviving less lethal violence, and overall less violence generally. There ARE occasional exceptions but the total numbers of victims of gun violence decrease if not to zero, to a small fraction of the same figures per capita here.

    And then we have this drivel:
    "Best to try to change the criminals before they 'turn'. If we were allowed to parent kids as parents parented kids in previous generations; if schools were allowed to discipline kids as needed, with corporal punishment; if religion had remained a strong reservoir of community morality and not be attacked in public forums by the party of atheism, then we'd have less of these rabid criminals."

    Do you know ANYTHING whatsoever about our history in this country - or the history of ANY other country for that matter? I can give you a perfect example of the kind of eras that you use revisionist history to describe - the latter period of the 19th century comes to mind, or the era of the 20s and 30s - remember prohibition?

    We had plenty of corporal punishment, and the kind of stupid religion that gave us the Scopes Monkey Trial, and some of the worst excesses of the KKK and Jim Crow laws and violence in the south. There is absolutely NO correlation to what you describe and lawful socieity whatsoever. It does however tend to equate to some of the most repressive eras EVER.

    It is typical of authoritarianism and fascism to inaccurately portray other periods of a nation's history as some magical 'golden' era of virtue and superiority, eras that do not exist in fact.

    You are dishonest, and ignorant.

  19. But then lets get to the best part Ser8d, you dumb chicken, that the worst criminals, those doing some of the largest amounts of business as defined by dollar amount use guile, and fraud, not guns.

    Or haven't you checked out the statistics of the recent financial industry fraud that occurred under that under-regulated Republican administration and congress, which has done more harm than any cheap hoodlum with a saturday night special anywhere ever. One does harm with or without guns, one can be criminal with or without guns.

    Guns are weapons; there is less violence with weapons than without.

    Criminals however come in both armed and unarmed varieties. The answer is NOT to arm more stupid people like you; that just produces more of the kind of stats I quoted in my earlier comments.

    Btw - the writing I do that is syndicated I do on Penigma, not here. So far as I know, MikeBs blog is not commercial in any way.

    It's just where I play at slam dunking people who can't frame arguments well, like you. That, and the pleasure of reading Laci's legal writing.

  20. Dear Serr8d, Thanks for practicing such restraint even when provoked. My follow bloggers and regular commenters get a bit passionate and you're right, I give them more leeway than I'd give you. That's just the way it is.

    Your idea, harping on the gun is an inanimate object is a bit of misdirection on your part. What we usually talk about is "gun availability," and the implication is gun "availability to the bad guys," which puts up all pretty much on the same page.

    No one denies that the gun itself can't so anything without a person behind it. Why do you keep bringing that up? We're past it.

    We see the 2A differently around here than you do. Speaking for myself, I think your understanding of that antiquated writing is a self-serving justification for your gun ownership which you desperately need when all your other justifications fail.

  21. Democommie,

    As you can see from my responses to Serr8d, he is very unpersuasive.

    He is ignorant of the facts and appears to be out of touch with reality as well.

    Between Dog Gone and myself, we wiped the floor with him.

    He needs to stay with the other extremely ignorant types at the US "Conservative" blogs, which are far different from Conservatives elsewhere.

  22. When it comes to keepin' it classy, Serridiot is hard to beat. Witness

    Hey, it's the shitstain Democommie! It has it's only wittle bwog now!

    Is that really your picture, you gay-looking fuck? Truck tires across your face, or what?

    Am I going to have some fun with that!"



    Democommie, you won't come around my blog or TennesseeFree because you know your vile ass would be shut down in a heartbeat. I'd beat you until you face was blacker than the inside of Obama's asshole. You killed Music City Bloggers and NIT, so you aren't welcome anywhere near where I post.

    Oh, and I've let Brian at 6MB know where you're at. Your attempts to stay hidden are over.

    Glad to see you have some they know your history? Seems that your sig alone would be enough to alert decent people to steer clear.

    But I suppose that even a shit-flinging monkey needs a few blowup dolls."

    and this:

    "Hey, you whiny-ass libtart, I saw you polluting SoBeale's joint (that pussy SoBeale won't publish my comments...just another asshole Democommie). Had you figured for dead or something (because of your stench) but since you've not yet kicked the can, here's this: BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA~!"

    all "classy" comments left on my blog over the last several years.

    Yes, Shitheel8, your words live on.

  23. Demo, you didn't need to prove your point. Serr8d and his opinions are not worth the bandwidth.

  24. "Truck tires across your face, or what?"

    LMAO! Demo, well Serr8d did get that right at least. You'd think a professional photographer could take a better picture of himself.

  25. Anonymutt:

    Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all. Show us your mug...oh, wait, that would mean you couldn't hide anymore.

    I could take a better photo of myself if I had the urge and that level of vanity. That photo was an ambush by my former neighbor.

  26. Democommie and Serr8d, I almost deleted these as being too crude, but Democommie makes me laugh and I sometimes can't make myself do it.

  27. None of you have wiped the floor with me. Jibbering and flinging pooh counts for very little, sorry.

    Remember, the 2nd Amendment is still land's law; it's still standing; the NRA is winning, and most of the Left-leaning lawmakers (those who are left, it seems there will be fewer after 2012) have wisely dropped the 'gun control' issue because it's cost them too much political capital. Ask Al Gore why he lost his home state in 2000; you'll find me, and my fellow NRA members smiling and waving right there behind him. We, the NRA in Tennessee, mobilized and stopped him. That's my personal contribution to saving the 2nd, of which I am very proud. None of you have accomplished near as much as I have, now have you?

    This Republic is unlike any other other in the world. We still drive cars, even though they kill many more people: men, women, and yes, children than guns do every year. We will accept some deaths, with sadness, but we will retain our freedoms, including the basic right to defend ourselves from criminality if need be. Again, we are Americans, and exceptional in this regard.

    You can't win this, although I appreciate your efforts. "I don't agree with a word you say, but I defend to the death your right to say them." Keep up trying, so we can stay sharp in our defense.

    This is NOT an open forum, Mikeb302000. You control the narrative, and that makes this forum much less than it could be. By allowing degradations like those espoused here by certain elements, you've become more Democratic Underground than Daily KOS.

    Not something I think you ascribed to when you started this, is it?

  28. None of you have wiped the floor with me.

    We certainly did.

    The fact that you can't refute our assertions with facts is proof of that.

    You have obviously missed US v Skoien as well.

    The only reason you think you are winning is that you aren't in touch with reality.

    You calling us Libruls?

    I like being a librul cos people like you show that Conservative means uninformed idealogue in the USA.

  29. BTW, Al Gore only lost because SCOTUS kept the election from running fairly.

    That meant that we had George W. Bush, who will probably go down as the worst president ever in US history--on whose watch we had 9-11 to the Start of the Second Great Depression.

    You advocate policies that will ensure this will be the Second Great Depression as well.

    What you are bragging about is the overturning of popularly enacted laws by non-residents (i.e., the Cato Foundation).

    It's a shame that you like the thwarting of Democratic process.

    You demonstrate what is wrong with being a single issue voter.

  30. So, the SCOTUS caused Al Gore to lose Tennessee? Never knew that.

    And the worst president in history is the SCOAMF now occupying the White House.

    Thankfully, for only one term, it seems.

    The special elections being held today in Nevada and New York will allow us to see exactly how much FAIL is coming on the SCOAMF's coattails.

  31. As I said, you aren't in touch with reality.

    But you like to show off your ignoance.

    World Net Daily disagrees with you.

    The usual press analysis is that Tennessee's demographics have changed, sending the once-Democratic stronghold tipping to the Republican Party. Sen. Fred Thompson and Gov. Don Sundquist have echoed this idea, while Rep. Bill Jenkins, from historically Republican upper east Tennessee, noted in an Associated Press report that "Tennessee didn't leave Gore. Gore left Tennessee." He pointed to Gore's changing stance on gun control and abortion as bellwethers.

    Yet, while these issues may have played a role, the answer is far more fundamental than that.

    "It was the character issue," says popular Nashville radio talk host Phil Valentine. "Thanks to talk radio and sources like WorldNetDaily getting out the truth, I believe it tipped the state to Bush."

    Or dear, that's your own side saying you don't know what you are talking about Serr8d--must be tough.

    As for Obama, it ain't Obama that's screwing things up, it's the do nothing republicans who just love to be contrary. If Obama wants it, they don't.

    Even if they proposed it to begin with.

    Not that I am too enthralled with Obama's appeasement of the right, but he does it.

    Well, serr8d, you are pretty much wrong most of the time. So, I am hoping you are once again incorrect that Obama will be a one term president.

    Especially if the repugs run candidates that espouse the type of programmes you do.

    After all, Free enterprise is wonderful at creating jobs--Just ask a Bank of America Employee about all the jobs that are being created.

  32. "You can't win this, although I appreciate your efforts. "I don't agree with a word you say, but I defend to the death your right to say them." Keep up trying, so we can stay sharp in our defense."

    Your one and only legitimate defense, tough guy, is that the SCotUS has not yet decided that the 2nd Amendment is not a permission slip for yahoos to own any and all weapons they like* with little or no governmental oversight.

    I always have to laugh a little bit when I read how the gummint, in your fever dreams, is gonna try to git yore gunz! You idiots are all over the internet, having huge gunzmeetz and doing everything else in your power to let them know who and where you are. If they wanted to grab yore gunz YOU are the ones helping them.

    I'm sure that if the SCotUS suddenly reversed course and said the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with private citizens amassing armories (many of those private citizens having announced pulbicly that they will resist "illegal" gummint intrusion into their lives) that you would all be good citizenz and hand over all of the gunz that they've decided you cannot legally own--Yeah, sure.

    You and your idiot friends remind me of the way the slave states reacted to the Emancipation Proclamation. If other people's freedoms, security and safety were allowed they figured they would lose theirs. It's almost too bad that they were wrong.

    Thanks, btw, for letting me know that you'll defend my right to call you an irrational douchebag. I feel much better, now.

    * Yes, I know about the bazookas, howitzers, crew served weapons and nukes already being denied to you morons.

  33. BTW, I figure out why he uses Val Kilmer as a gravatar.

    Nathan Bedford Forrest is too obvious.