Thursday, May 21, 2009

Lacey Brothers Sentenced in Shooting Death

In Queensland Australia, an affluent area known as the Gold Coast, they've got the same kinds of problems as everyone else. Two years ago a shooting took place at a party. Two brothers named Dionne and Jade Lacey shot and killed a "friend" of theirs after an argument. From The Australian, on-line newspaper:


Justice Martin on Wednesday sentenced Dionne to 10 years' imprisonment and Jade to five years.

Justice Martin also directed that a serious violent offending order be placed on Dionne Lacey, meaning he will have to serve 80 per cent of his sentence before parole.

Jade will be eligible for parole after serving 50 per cent of his sentence. Justice Martin said he had taken into account the two years in custody already served by both brothers.

During the sentencing, Justice Martin said a deterrent was needed for the increasing number of people carrying firearms in Queensland and Australia.


I think Justice Martin has a different definition of what constitutes a deterrent than his counterparts in, say, Houston or Dallas. What do you think? These two gangsta wannabes pulled out guns at a party, one of them shot the guy in the legs and the other immediately shot him in the chest. It seems like a pretty light sentence to me. What's your opinion?

There's a brief attempt to explain how this violence happens to exist in Australia.

The Lacey brothers' defence lawyers argued that the two brothers had grown up with good aspirations until Jade went to America for a year when he was 18 to make rap music.

They said this introduced him to the "stupid concept'' of people carrying guns and led the pair astray.


Do you think there's something to that or is it just a slur on the U.S.? It brings up an interesting question, though; does the rap-music type gun violence have anything to do with the law abiding gun owners of America? Do you think all the championing of guns and gun culture that took place last week in Phoenix, for example, feeds into the fringe groups that also like guns, the white supremacists, the black rappers, etc.?

What's your opinion? Isn't the vastly lower rate of gun violence in Australia a direct result of the gun control laws there? Doesn't that also furnish evidence that fewer guns means fewer gun deaths?

What about the 2nd Amendment in countries where they don't have it written into their Constitution? Isn't the "right" supposed to be god-given, something that transcends the written word of the national documents? How does that work in places like Australia?

Please leave a comment.

33 comments:

  1. "Do you think all the championing of guns and gun culture that took place last week in Phoenix, for example, feeds into the fringe groups that also like guns, the white supremacists, the black rappers, etc.?"

    That's a question you could answer us, Mike.

    Tell us about your stint as an illegal criminal.

    Was it the NRA, or Rap Music that fueled your crimes?

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  2. Weer'd, I'm not planning on sharing any more of my personal life with you than I already have. And that has nothing to do with the quantity or enormity of my misdeeds.

    I tried to make a point once before to you, that many people have deviated in minor ways from the exact letter of the law. You said you never have, never, not even in the slightest.

    It reminded me of another time when you denied ever having seen one of these. You said never, ever had you even seen one.

    http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/02/bullet-ridden-road-signs.html

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  3. MikeB,

    I think you answer your own question if you would just think about it.

    These two gangsta wannabes pulled out guns at a party, one of them shot the guy in the legs and the other immediately shot him in the chest.Is it really a firearm issue when the "gansta wannabes" have such light regard for someone else's life and rights?

    It is the GANSTA CULTURE that is the problem. Do you really think they would have had the same attitude toward violence if they had spent time with members of the NRA instead of living in the rap culture?

    After all this time you still refuse to understand.

    What about the 2nd Amendment in countries where they don't have it written into their Constitution? Isn't the "right" supposed to be god-given, something that transcends the written word of the national documents?The RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS is, in our opinion, a natural or inherent right. That RIGHT is protected from GOVERNMENTAL INTERFERENCE by the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment isn't the right to keep and bear arms --- it only tells the government not to touch that right.

    Other countries have not protected that right nearly as well as America has.

    Let's take a look at what's happened to the U.K. They have removed most of the firearms. Has that made their country safer? NO.
    Crime rates are skyrocketing.

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  4. First of all Mike, welcome back--I hope your procedure went smoothly.

    Secondly, this article is all lies. Australia banned guns so there could not be any more gun crimes. So how could this even happen?

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  5. MikeB,

    I can easily disprove your "more guns -more crime" theory if you are honest.

    Let's say you are at that party. You are the person being disrespected by the young punk.

    So if you don't have a firearm, what do you do? Do you beat him up, stab him, or walk away?

    So if you DO have a firearm, what do you do? Do you shoot him, stab him, beat him up or walk away?

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  6. "Weer'd, I'm not planning on sharing any more of my personal life with you than I already have. And that has nothing to do with the quantity or enormity of my misdeeds. "

    But that's the whole crux of my argument. You babble incoherently about lawful gun owners and political groups like the NRA somehow being the cause of the the violent groups of people such as inner city gangs....of course you fail to present some "missing link" to these two groups.

    Meanwhile I present YOU. A person who complains about gun laws not being strict enugh in the world at large, and America spesifically. Meanwhile you openly admit, and with zero remorse that you waltzed RIGHT THROUGH the laws that you think aren't strict enugh.

    The laws weren't strict enugh, but you still were forced to violate them to carry on your life.

    You have no remorse for your action, but also you offer no advocacy for those who are JUST LIKE YOU and are in direct and open violation of US law.

    Also you avoid the main crux of the pro-freedom arguments that we simply need stronger enforcement of the laws.

    You illigally owned guns. You are a criminal, yet you were not punished.

    You should have done a few years in prison for your crimes.

    Better yet if people like you were doing hard time for their crimes, would you have violated the law in the first place?

    Mike YOU ARE THE MISSING LINK! If you want to steam gun violence in the world we need to rid the world of people who act like you.

    You need to work hard to help be an advocate against what you have done.

    That is if you honestly care about such things.

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  7. ...does the rap-music type gun violence have anything to do with the law abiding gun owners of America?

    Like almost all gun owners, I condemn the criminal use of guns and think that people like this (and all the other murderers you've posted about) should be removed from society. It's just that I think dealing with these people using the laws we have rather than constantly letting them go out of misplaced compassion is a far better solution than setting them free and trying to make the whole world out of Nerf.

    What's your opinion? Isn't the vastly lower rate of gun violence in Australia a direct result of the gun control laws there? Doesn't that also furnish evidence that fewer guns means fewer gun deaths?

    Have Australia's extremely strict gun control laws actually reduced their rates of violent crime and murder? An arbitrary category called "gun crime" is down, but are fewer people actually being killed and mourning lost family members and friends? If not, then they've trampled the rights of twenty million people for the sake of juggling a statistic. A bit of a false victory, I'd say.

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  8. Michael - Mike has to measure "gun crime" because his "it's so much safer after we ban guns" bullshit falls apart if he looks at overall violent crime.

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  9. Rather than argue about the "stupid concept of people carrying guns", I'll add a bit to it...and agree

    It is a stupid concept to carry a gun to gain respect. It is a stupid concept to use a gun to punish someone who has disrespected you. It is stupid to injure someone over an argument, whether you do it with fists or a weapon.

    If blaming the US is the best defense the lawyer could come up with, it is no wonder they were found guilty.

    Sometimes I listen to country music--it doesn't make me cheat on my wife....

    Weren't Australia's gun laws made far stricter relatively recently? How has crime trended since then? (I honestly don't know--I've heard both up and down)

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  10. @Bob S. - If those guys would have spent time with a NRA member, they would have gone home, gotten drunk, and beat the shit out of their girlfriends for not cooking them their favorite dinner and cleaning up the house.

    And I'm going to try your theory disproving more guns = more crimes. And I'm going to be completely honest:

    If I didn't have a gun, I'd call the young punk's mother a whore and walk away. But if I did have a gun, I'd call the young punk's mother a whore and then shoot him in the goddamn head.

    Did that support your theory?

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  11. Phuck,

    Absolutely it supports my theory. That the firearm isn't the problem, it is the person USING IT.

    That was the point that I was trying to make. You would decide to use the firearm.

    I've been insulted while not carrying firearms. I walked away.

    I've been insulted while carrying firearms. I walked away.

    It wasn't the firearm that made the difference. It is the morals, character, ethics, and principles of those using the firearms. Guess we know where your ethics lie, eh?
    Willing to commit assault or murder over being disrespected.

    As far as your despicable stereotyping; I am glad you did that. It shows how little regard, how little tolerance people like you have for those that disagree with you.

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  12. "does the rap-music type gun violence have anything to do with the law abiding gun owners of America?"

    No. In fact, I doubt there many rappers who can legally buy or possess a gun. A criminal record is usually a rite of passage to get into the rap game.

    "Do you think all the championing of guns and gun culture that took place last week in Phoenix, for example, feeds into the fringe groups that also like guns, the white supremacists, the black rappers, etc.?"

    It depends. How many rappers and white supremacists were at the convention? Not very many. So, no. I don't think so.

    As for how the 2nd Amendment works in Australia, it obviously doesn't. They gave up their rights and people have a right to give up their rights. More power to them.

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  13. I see that the dimwit senator from Oklahoma attached an amendment to the credit card bill that allows guns into the national forests.

    Just what we need is more armed psychopaths roaming the backwoods of America.

    Welcome back, Mike. Your clutch of gun advocates didn't know what to do with their anger while you were away, but now they can place it all at your lap once again.

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  14. "Just what we need is more armed psychopaths roaming the backwoods of America."

    Comming from a man who has a medicine chest filled with anti-psychotic drugs, I think that's REALLY FUNNY Muddy!

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  15. MudRake,

    Guns are already allowed in National Forests and have never been prohibited there.

    This law will allow folks that are already allowed to carry concealed weapons everywhere else to carry them in National Parks. In other words, it just means that if you can be trusted in a mall or a city to carry a concealed handgun, then you can also do so in a National Park. Your state law doesn't end because you crossed a line into a national park area.

    Have you ever been to the Everglades? No way you would want to be there without a gun.

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  16. John J. Rambo: You bringing any weapons?
    Burnett: Of course not.
    John J. Rambo: Then you ain't changin' nothin'.

    Sylvester Stallone, Brady Campaign Spokesman, in his latest incarnation as John Rambo.

    He supports MikeB's position that he should be held accountable for encouraging violence in his movies. So, the next time a copy of one of Stallone's movies is found in the home of a shooter, we should sue Stallone and everyone associated with his movies as a 'public nuisance', right? I'm sure he'll compensate the families of the victims, right?

    http://daysofourtrailers.blogspot.com/2007/12/washed-up-actors-and-thier-politics.html

    Irony. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

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  17. +1 FWM

    Also living in New England there have been several serial murderers and/or rapists lurking on the Appalachian trail in the White Mountains national Forrest, as well as the dangerous animals (be they endemic or unruly pets)

    Of course it's not like national parks are all woods and untouched wilderness. Many parks are a lot more like New York's central park than the Yukon.

    Central park, you know the place that everybody tells you not to enter after dark.

    Still it's not like it's worth arguing with a person like Muddy. He attempts to slander gun owners as mentally ill, meanwhile he himself needs medications to remain functional.

    He babbles about Religious Fundamentalists, meanwhile like MikeB he has blind faith that gun control works, and will never change his mind.

    Oh yeah and this is the same guy who still says "The Bush Junta".

    Zero Credibility, Mudball!

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  18. @Bob S - So it's okay for you to rip the gansta culture, but it isn't okay for me to rip the NRA culture?

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  19. Which one violates the law?

    You have Free Speech, Phuck, you're welcome to insult whoever you want.

    Of course you are doing a very good job at characterizing yourself as a violent thug who has little respect for the law, and even less common sense.

    Therefore I raise no objections. I'd hate to speak for Bob, but he's a good guy and I can't see why he'd have a problem with you making a fool of yourself, as well as pointing out the dangers of "Thug Culture" to society at large.

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  20. "@Bob S - So it's okay for you to rip the gansta culture, but it isn't okay for me to rip the NRA culture?"

    Put a bunch of NRA members in a room all armed with guns. See what happens. Then put a bunch of armed "gangsta thugs" in a confined space together.

    Only one of those groups will be violent, even though both are armed. See NRA convention I just came back from in Phoenix for example. 60K folks, a huge number of whom were carrying, and yet we didn't see any violence. Why is that? CULTURE.

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  21. Phuckpolitics,

    You've been answered and schooled by the others.

    Anything I would have to say would just be repetitious.

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  22. "Only one of those groups will be violent, even though both are armed. See NRA convention I just came back from in Phoenix for example. 60K folks, a huge number of whom were carrying, and yet we didn't see any violence. Why is that? CULTURE."

    Why would there be violence at an event where everyone has the same views?

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  23. PhuckPolitics,

    Gangsters all have the same views but that is where the violence seems to be coming from.

    The statement from MikeB and the pro-ignorance, anti-freedom groups has always been "more guns - more violence".

    We've shown over and over again that other factors are more important then the number of firearms available.

    Things like the morals, culture, ethics, values of the people who have the firearms.

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  24. @Bob S. - Was it a "gangster" that opened fire in a small south Alabama town and killing ten people? Was it a "gangster" that opened fire in a popular Illinois church and killing the Reverend? Was it a "gangster" that opened fire in a crowded Omaha mall and killing eight people?

    Nope.

    Each gunman was a white middle class male who got off on NRA conventions and gun magazines.

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  25. "Each gunman was a white middle class male who got off on NRA conventions and gun magazines."

    Aw, poor PP. You do realize that anecdotes /= data, right?

    Would you like to see the real demographics? I'm sure you don't really care since it doesn't match w/ your little hate fest.

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  26. Dear Thirdpower, I think Mr. Phuckpolitics has a point. The question is how prevalent are those guys; what percentage of you guys do stuff like that. I imagine it's a small percentage, but what about the less dramatic offenses? What about the ones that don't end in bloodshed but might have? Now we're talking a much larger percentage. Imagine all your gun buddies who aren't as articulate as you are in venting their anger via the written word. Those guys would be veritable powder kegs, no?

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  27. Of course you think he has a 'point' MikeB, you support his baseless opinion.

    You know you don't want facts but over 40% of murders are committed by African Americans against other African Americans. They make up 13.4% of the population.

    The rest of your post is just your usual inherent rambling hoping to dodge the fact that you have nothing but Brady cutnpastes,if even that, to support your endless assertions that firearm owners want to shoot up everything they see.

    Nevermind the fact that you were caught lying again on the "NRA forcing the BATFE to include a disclaimer".

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  28. MikeB, PhuckPolitics,

    The question is how prevalent are those guys;The answer is out there, you are just unwilling to find out and right now I'm unwilling to provide it for you. ESPECIALLY since you won't believe me anyways.

    You'll say that I've cooked the statistics or it is biased or the COPS ARE COVERING UP. Any number of such LIES.

    The fact is that the majority of the violence is associated with urban culture, associated with criminal activity, associated with drug trafficking.


    Those guys would be veritable powder kegs, no?MikeB, you little pissantYou are a vertitable powder keg also, DON"T CALL US names, don't through people like us under the bus, don't insult us without including yourself!!!!!


    You say you want this to be a polite site, but you continue to insult us. To deride us and those like us as instable is very insulting. STOP That or don't be surprised when people are less then polite to you!!!

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  29. Bob said, "Those guys would be veritable powder kegs, no?MikeB, you little pissantYou are a vertitable powder keg also, DON"T CALL US names, don't through people like us under the bus, don't insult us without including yourself!!!!!"Bob, Ever hear that expression "If the shoe fits wear it?"

    Why do you keep acting so personally insulted by what I write which is not necessarily directed at you. We've been quibbling about the percentage of "bad apples." I thought you were one of the good guys.

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  30. The same reason why you get upset when I say you live in New Jersey and have no family, and that you lie about being in the Marines.

    Obviously you hold these values high, and I show no respect for them.

    So you get insulted.

    You tell lies about us, we get insulted.

    Only one group of us don't screen our comments.

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  31. MikeB,

    I get personally upset because I know people that you are smearing with your lies and libel.

    I get personally upset because you KNOW THE TRUTH and continue to distort and twist things.

    I get personally upset because of your double standard and hypocrisy. You would freak out if I mentioned a certain activity and wondered how much of it came from Ex-pats living in Italy, right?

    I get personally upset because you continue to insult us, then deny you insult us. I AM ONE OF THOSE "POTENTIAL POWDER KEGS".
    You can not continue to cast a wide shadow of aspersions then claim "OH, I DIDN"T MEAN YOU GUYS". That is lying. You meant it exactly. You've said we, personally and individually, are respsonsible for criminal actions.

    It isn't quibbling about good apples and bad apples when you wonder how many of those like us are dangerous....it is very personal. Deal With it like an honorable man or stop your distortions.

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  32. Bob, If the shoe fits wear it, otherwise stop all the hysterics.

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