Monday, June 8, 2009

Olivares-Coster - Walking Wikipedia and Murderer

The Great Falls Tribune reports on the tragic teenage shooting that took place in Helena Montana, leaving one dead and two wounded.

Sebastian Olivares-Coster, 17 and known as "Seabass" among friends, remained in custody on charges that he shot Leary, Wohlers and Cory Andrewski on Wednesday night in an apparent argument about a girl. Andrewski, 16, was shot at close range and died at the scene.

Other reports come from the Missoulian.com site, which includes a video of the initial court appearance in which bail was set at $500,000.

Olivares-Coster's friends described him as a brilliant student - one called him a “walking Wikipedia” - who took honors and advanced placement college classes before dropping out of Helena High School last fall.

Clay Springmeyer was Olivares-Coster's best friend at Central Elementary School and through part of middle school until Olivares-Coster's family moved to Prague for a short period.


“He spoke fluent French, German and Czech, and told me he wanted to go to a military academy and try to become a diplomat,” said Springmeyer, a Helena High senior who graduates Saturday. “He was smart, kind and rambunctious, just a normal kid who was smarter than most people.”

Other friends acknowledged that Olivares-Coster became a different person when he drank. They say he "never became physically violent toward anyone, but had broken windows, pointed an unloaded weapon at a person, and chased a person with a knife."

What do you suppose could explain a 17-year-old doing such things with guns? He's said to have pointed an unloaded weapon at someone once. In the details of this case, we know that the other day he went home, got a loaded gun, lured his friends to a convenient place and tried to kill all three of them. One of the survivors was shot in the head and the other was shot "several" times.

Do you think the prevalent gun culture in Montana could have something to do with this? Or, perhaps it's not limited to Montana. Haven't we seen this time and time again in all parts of the country? The inability to effect conflict resolution peacefully, combined with the ready access of guns and the know-how to use them, often proves to be a deadly combination.

What do you think about the gun laws in Montana?

Under federal law, long guns and shotguns can’t be purchased by anyone younger than 18, and handguns can’t be bought by anyone younger than 21. However, they can lawfully own a handgun or shotgun that is given to them.

What kind of a silly law is that? I suppose your typical gun lover would have no qualms giving his teenage son, or even his pre-teen son for that matter, guns of his own. It's all about education and training, isn't it? Did anyone ever consider that maybe kids cannot easily learn the difficult concepts of discretion and prudence, of resorting to violence only as a last resort and only when lethal threat is operative? Did any of these gun enthusiasts ever think that lessons like these, which are hard enough for responsible adults to incorporate, might be too much for kids?

What's your opinion? How could a young boy learn three or four languages living in Montana? Why do you think he dropped out of high school? Do you think alcohol played a role in this tragedy?

Please leave a comment.

38 comments:

  1. "What do you suppose could explain a 17-year-old doing such things with guns?"

    "Other friends acknowledged that Olivares-Coster became a different person when he drank."

    Hmmm.

    "How could a young boy learn three or four languages living in Montana?"

    Nice little bit of discrimination there MikeB. Shows how 'progressive' your thinking is.

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    1. I'm guessing he learned the languages living in Prague with his parents lol

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  2. "never became physically violent toward anyone, but had broken windows, pointed an unloaded weapon at a person, and chased a person with a knife."

    Mike asks "Do you think Alcohol played a role in this tragedy?"

    So, we have a 17 year old who's known to be belligerent while drunk. Also, the article says he "never became physically violent." Bullshit. Folks who get drunk and deliberately point guns at people or grab a knife and chase people ARE violent.

    I don't consider someone who engages in such acts as "normal." I consider them EXACTLY the kind of people who end up committing acts of violence (like murder)

    Also, you'll note that it says he was an honors student and then abruptly dropped out of high school. That's a huge red flag and a much more pertinent factor than Montana's gun laws don't you think?

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  3. When people comment on a situation that their only relationship to is having read about it, they often end up sounding incredibly uninformed to those with firsthand relationships/experience to the situation. Judgment and speculation are never good ways to arrive at peace with a tragic circumstance.

    If one wants to try to understand, then with open eyes, gather facts, life circumstances and experiences. Attempting to understand is a way to make sense of something, not a way to excuse, condone, or alleviate responsibility.

    I know we are all at our own place in the walk of life. Each of us processes pain and confusion, or attempts to answer "why" in their own way. Some cast judgment in order to quell uncertainty, some recognize that they simply don't know, and others are able to offer compassion. The truth is, that in many ways, none of us knows or can possibly comprehend the existence of another.

    We are all doing our best to grasp life.

    There is so much pain in these events, and my heart is with each and every person that has been affected.

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  4. Not only are you not in possession of all the facts, but those you have included are largely incorrect. I don't know if you're purposefully warping the story or if you just can't read, but I hope you don't have any journalistic aspirations, because you're terrible at this.

    And what does living in Montana have to do with speaking multiple languages?

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  5. "How could a young boy learn three or four languages living in Montana?"

    Nice little bit of discrimination there MikeB. Shows how 'progressive' your thinking is.


    No kidding--it's as if he's unaware that there are books, schools, and (gasp!) even computers in Montana.

    The casual bigotry of some people never ceases to amaze me.

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  6. To all of you I plead non--guilty to the charges of bigotry and discrimination about the language remark.

    I've learned a second and a third language in my life and speak all three in my daily routine. My kids speak these three languages from birth and are truly fluent. It's hard for me to imagine any 17-year-old speaking languages like that unless he'd been raised in the UN compound in Brussels or some place like that - or unless he is an incredible genius.

    My question was exactly what it said, nothing more. "How could a young boy learn three or four languages living in Montana?"

    The living in Montana point is that they speak English there. It's more difficult to learn a second language while surrounded by your first.

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  7. To Mr. Anonymous, I'm very sorry if I offended. I can assure you there's no purposeful warping of anything going on here. You sound like you know about this case, if you wouldn't mind, please tell me where I've got it wrong.

    Please accept my personal condolences. I know it often doesn't sound like it in my writing, but I feel for the victims and their families very much.

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  8. Yes, they speak English in Montana. They also speak Crow, Blackfoot, Spanish, Hmong, and the languages of many other native and immigrant communities. Personally, I learned two additional languages to my own growing up in Montana. At the University of Montana I learned one more and went on to become a professor. And, no, my parents did not give me guns when I was a child.

    By the way, if you had read the reports about the terrible incident upon which you are commenting more carefully, you would have learned that the young man in question lived abroad for a period of time.

    Please work on your critical reading, writing, and thinking skills a bit more before you offer further social commentary. You can cause tremendous offense and pain to people when you post uninformed views about such terrible tragedies.

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  9. "Clay Springmeyer was Olivares-Coster's best friend at Central Elementary School and through part of middle school until Olivares-Coster's family moved to Prague for a short period."

    You ask how could one learn to speak multiple languages while living in Montana, yet it is plainly stated that he lived in Prague for awhile.

    Aside from moving out of the country, if one has the inclination and resources to learn foreign languages, then one can learn them! Helena also offers a quality private college where high-school students can opt to take higher level classes. Reading through all of the articles related to this case would have revealed that higher level college classes were utilized.

    Montana may have a smaller population, with most residents being Caucasian, however, the quality of education is superior to many states and cities with greater population diversity and concentration.

    I have spent a bit of time reading your blog and trying to understand your message. I wonder myself if better gun control laws could have affected a different outcome. Montana certainly has a strange (if not entirely backward) gun ownership policy. I would disagree, however, that there is a prevalent gun culture in the major population centers of Montana.

    I do think some of your speculation and rationalization would benefit from greater circumspection. You seem to have good intentions, but perhaps are alienating a lot of people who might otherwise be inclined to agree with you.

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  10. Kenov and Anonymous, You're either the same person or two guys giving me the same advice, which I gladly accept. I admit sometimes I read too quickly and start shooting off at the mouth. It definitely would be better for me to take more care with that in the future. Advice accepted in the spirit of fraternal correction.

    I was interested that you said Montana does not have a "prevalent gun culture in the major population centers."

    Honestly I did not intend to disparage Montana in any way. I know the education system there is better than in many other states and that a gifted student can learn anything he wants there.

    When I read the article in which it was mentioned that the family moved to Prague, I pictured a small suburb of Helena, Prague Montana. It was a foolish mistake on my part especially when I read that the kid speaks Czech fluently, I should have put it together.

    Again, please accept my apologies for insulting Montana, even though unintentional.

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  11. excuse me asshole but "lured three of his friends" dumbass im one of the people who got shot's best friend and they didnt even know him.. and as for how you look down on montana your a dumb fuck you need to get ran over and keep your fucking nose out of shit that has nothing to do with you

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  12. Dear Mike, being a Montana resident myself, I'd like to say, you're far from correct on most EVERYTHING in this post.

    Firstly, Montana doesn't have as strong of a 'gun culture', as you would say, as a matter of fact barely one at all in Helena, which is where I happen to live.

    Secondly, as I'm sure you've found by now, learning a foreign language in Helena is no shock. AS a matter of fact, a graduating senior at either of our highschools is required to have at least a year of a language other than english, to fufill the graduating requirement, and Helena high offers Spanish, French, Latin, Chinese, and German. Not to mention, Caroll College offers other programs, and for someone motivated enough there are plenty of ways outside of school to learn.

    Also, no I don't blame our gun laws, because frankly I doubt Sebastian would have had any trouble obtaining a gun even without our laws. His parents didn't notice anything else to be a 'reg flag', even though they were fairly prominent, as I can safely say I don't know anyone who points guns, and draws knives on their friends, without concern being brought up. There is no possible way that he didn't know that what he intended to do was wrong, regardless of what he was, or wasn't, taught. Morality still comes in to play, and if you look at it, this kid obviously had something wrong in his mindset that I sincerely doubt was purely influenced by alcohol.

    Also, please take our media with a grain of salt, rarely do they know what they're talking about. Such as when it says members of Kahner, or Cory's family denied taking questions for the paper? They weren't contacted. I can guarantee you of this, as I've been a close friend of Kahner Leary since Middle School, and have talked to Cory's mother.

    For the record, "Three of his friends" is Horribly inaccurate. Feel free to actually read the damn Afadavit, before you post. It's on helenair.com You really don't know anything about this situation, and you're just using it to fuel the flames to your anti-gun propoganda you're spewing all over this blog.

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  13. Dear Mike, being a Montana resident myself, I'd like to say, you're far from correct on most EVERYTHING in this post.

    Firstly, Montana doesn't have as strong of a 'gun culture', as you would say, as a matter of fact barely one at all in Helena, which is where I happen to live.

    Secondly, as I'm sure you've found by now, learning a foreign language in Helena is no shock. AS a matter of fact, a graduating senior at either of our highschools is required to have at least a year of a language other than english, to fufill the graduating requirement, and Helena high offers Spanish, French, Latin, Chinese, and German. Not to mention, Caroll College offers other programs, and for someone motivated enough there are plenty of ways outside of school to learn.

    Also, no I don't blame our gun laws, because frankly I doubt Sebastian would have had any trouble obtaining a gun even without our laws. His parents didn't notice anything else to be a 'reg flag', even though they were fairly prominent, as I can safely say I don't know anyone who points guns, and draws knives on their friends, without concern being brought up. There is no possible way that he didn't know that what he intended to do was wrong, regardless of what he was, or wasn't, taught. Morality still comes in to play, and if you look at it, this kid obviously had something wrong in his mindset that I sincerely doubt was purely influenced by alcohol.

    Also, please take our media with a grain of salt, rarely do they know what they're talking about. Such as when it says members of Kahner, or Cory's family denied taking questions for the paper? They weren't contacted. I can guarantee you of this, as I've been a close friend of Kahner Leary since Middle School, and have talked to Cory's mother.

    For the record, "Three of his friends" is Horribly inaccurate. Feel free to actually read the damn Afadavit, before you post. It's on helenair.com You really don't know anything about this situation, and you're just using it to fuel the flames to your anti-gun propoganda you're spewing all over this blog.

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  14. Dear Mike, being a Montana resident myself, I'd like to say, you're far from correct on most EVERYTHING in this post.

    Firstly, Montana doesn't have as strong of a 'gun culture', as you would say, as a matter of fact barely one at all in Helena, which is where I happen to live.

    Secondly, as I'm sure you've found by now, learning a foreign language in Helena is no shock. AS a matter of fact, a graduating senior at either of our highschools is required to have at least a year of a language other than english, to fufill the graduating requirement, and Helena high offers Spanish, French, Latin, Chinese, and German. Not to mention, Caroll College offers other programs, and for someone motivated enough there are plenty of ways outside of school to learn.

    Also, no I don't blame our gun laws, because frankly I doubt Sebastian would have had any trouble obtaining a gun even without our laws. His parents didn't notice anything else to be a 'reg flag', even though they were fairly prominent, as I can safely say I don't know anyone who points guns, and draws knives on their friends, without concern being brought up. There is no possible way that he didn't know that what he intended to do was wrong, regardless of what he was, or wasn't, taught. Morality still comes in to play, and if you look at it, this kid obviously had something wrong in his mindset that I sincerely doubt was purely influenced by alcohol.

    Also, please take our media with a grain of salt, rarely do they know what they're talking about. Such as when it says members of Kahner, or Cory's family denied taking questions for the paper? They weren't contacted. I can guarantee you of this, as I've been a close friend of Kahner Leary since Middle School, and have talked to Cory's mother.

    For the record, "Three of his friends" is Horribly inaccurate. Feel free to actually read the damn Afadavit, before you post. It's on helenair.com You really don't know anything about this situation, and you're just using it to fuel the flames to your anti-gun propoganda you're spewing all over this blog.

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  15. Dear JamesMichall, Thanks for your comment. I posted both in case there's any difference. I didn't want to take the chance and delete one of them.

    Listen, I'm very sorry if I offended you. You're not the first one to take issue with some of the things I said about Montana and this case.

    I appreciate the feedback about Helena not having a big gun culture. I find that surprising but interesting and I don't dispute your word on it.

    The language thing is mainly based on my own experience. Learning a second and third language is not easy to do while living in one's own home country, which is what I thought Sebastian was supposed to have done. It was pointed out by another commented that I'd missed something there.

    Anyway, what's happening with the case? If they weren't his friends, who were they to him? Why'd he do it?

    You said that by writing about this case I'm "just using it to fuel the flames to your anti-gun propoganda you're spewing all over this blog."

    Well I guess that's a fair enough description of what I do. Of course, I'd choose different words for "propaganda" and "spewing," but essentially, you've got me pegged.

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  16. And to mike302000- He was a genius. If you get the chance, speak with him. I'm sure he would love to. It has been said that his IQ is that of Jim Morrison. Don't judge on his intelligence, read a school paper of his, or maybe read some the the incredibly difficult books that he has read, then tell us all how close to a genius Sebby really is. Sorry for not being soft on the comment, it really got to me.

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  17. I live in Helena and know Sabastians parents. They don't own a gun and there are some questions about where he actually obtained the gun. So he was in violation of Montana law and Federal law by having a gun.

    People can illegally obtain a gun anywhere and has nothing to do with a gun culture. People in a gun culture understand the proper use and seriousness of having a gun.

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  18. I personally believe that the language question is null and void to this whole discussion, and indeed to the matter at hand. I do disagree, however, with the use of the small "one year" requirement of another language in order to graduate from high schools in Helena. A single year in any language, especially at a high school level, in a high school environment, is obscenely little and does not contribute in the slightest to fluency. I am a Junior in Helena High School, I have taken high school level spanish classes for four years, and have two more years of study in middle school. I am only now beginning to gain some realistic confidence in my fluency. So the "one year" requirement has no grasp as an argument here, in my belief.

    It is false to say that there is no gun culture in Helena. To say that there is definitely less of one than in places like Bozeman or Billings is true. But also, we must take into account what kind of gun culture. No, it is not everybody owning a handgun, but there is a presence of hunting and shooting for pleasure. Personally I disagree with these pasttimes, but my personal standing is neither here nor there as far as relevance to this issue goes. But these pasttimes DO constitute a gun culture.

    Now the question arises: to what extent is this incident with Sebastian related to "Montana" gun culture? I do not think it is related so much to the "culture", but to the irrelevant, backwards, and downright stupid gun control laws. Given, I am for gun control and this doubtless colors my viewpoint. But nevertheless. These policies are outdated for our time.

    This tragedy has affected myself and many others very personally. The day the seniors at Helena High should have been excited and happy about graduating was the day that we found out about Sebastian. The end of school and finals-taking became a torture. What I am saying is that this situation is sad, yes, and desperately so. But sometimes I think that we go too far into overgeneralizations and rationalizations when something like this occurs. Nobody can know what it was really like except for those involved in the incident itself, and it makes me feel a little strange when the newspapers try to pigeonhole everything and everybody into their own slot in life. "This is what happened and this is why." Of course such a question is an intrinsic part of human nature. We want to know why. We want to know how. We want to know. But sometimes we can't and so I think we should only use this situation as a going-off point to discuss other issue, like gun control and other social issues. But to try to analyze a person based on the words of newspapers, to try to understand rather than infer, is something impossible.

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  19. Anonymous, Thanks so much for your comment. The language thing is pretty much what I had in mind in the first place. Some folks were offended, but based on my own experience, learning another language while living in your home country is difficult and rare. Initially, I hadn't realized that Sebastian had lived abroad.

    Whether Helena has a gun culture I guess is a very subjective call. From my perspective, all of America has a gun culture. And, sadly it is related to these incidents.

    I wasn't clear on what you meant by the gun control laws. "These policies are outdated for our time."

    Would you mind elaborating?

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  20. Joey Wohlers is my nephew who has
    always been a good kid,maybe not perfect,not violent by any means.
    I am not here to analyze why this
    evil spawn did this to these innocent
    victims.I can tell you this that each
    time I see my poor nephew with all his bullet holes(2 right above his heart)scars from all the surgeries
    to save his life,a limp he'll have
    the rest of his life,the weight loss
    because he can't digest solid food.'Damn right" my family is angry
    now my 16 yr old nephew has to live with the memory of losing his best friend right in front of
    his own eyes Drunk or not have fun in Prison Seb"ass"tian.

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  21. it dont matter why . but that it did. now sabasstion will be some ones bitch for a long time. enjoy you life you little harry potter looking fuck. and some one envbited some one to site down with him. and that he would like that. well thair are allot of people who would love to site down with him. what he did is unspecable, and he should have the same done to him. aneye for an eye.

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  22. Lis and Anonymous, I can see you're personally involved in the case and have great animosity for Sebastian, understandably so. But, what led up to the shooting? Why did he do it? Just being drunk doesn't explain it.

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  23. MIKEB302000;
    Thank God: the trial starts soon so
    the truth will be told.One thing I
    can tell you, is they did not know
    him.Maybe you can ask Cory's Mom
    what happened to her only son.Why
    a stupid idiot took his young life.
    I'm quite sure his 4 languages will
    come into good use where he's going
    there's a lot of different ethnic
    backgrounds...R.I.P,Cory
    Love You..Joey & Kahner

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  24. before you say a bunch of dumb crap like he shot his three friends they werent friends that he shot he didnt know them get your facts straight and yes montana has a better education system in which montana students outperform most of the nation so yes you can learn 4 different languages in montana

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  25. and also im sure cory andrewski wasnt shot without provocation knowing cory he was running his mouth the whole way to spot where the shooting occurred im not sayin he deserved what he got but that he probably didn't help the situation by running his mouth like he always did

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  26. Thanks for the comments all you who are personally involved.

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  27. I think its funny how you're attacking montana's gun laws. First of all it obviously wasnt HIS gun, seeing as how he IS UNDER 18, so obviously some ADULT is the one to blame here, not the montana gun law. And personally this is like the first gun crime ive heard about in MT in like 10 years, Ive heard many more in other states, so i really don't think its kosher to go and judge montana's "silly" gun laws because they seem perfectly legite to me. so maybe we should blame the adult who let a loaded gun be available to a violent when drunk kid or the kid himself instead "montanas silly gun laws" .

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  28. Dear Anonymous, I did ask a question about the gun laws, but I also asked this:

    "Do you think the prevalent gun culture in Montana could have something to do with this?"

    That's the real problem in my opinion, well, maybe it's both.

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  29. Well, I have known Kahner since like, sixth grade. And he is the shit. This case is over though, and we should leave it alone, Sebastian will get his in prison, no matter how beefy he got leading up to the trial.

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    Replies
    1. i was actually friends with this kid. so since you don't know him and will never have the chance i have to say he was really NEVER violent before this. it was just as shocking to his friends and family then it was to all of you

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    2. I beg to differ

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  30. This is quite the old post but frankly I feel it needs some new information. I knew Sebastian through part of elementary and part of middle school through the Grandstreet Theater School in Helena. With this in mind I can personally attest that he was a brilliant young man with a great sense of humor. I can also say that alcohol did terrible things to him, Sebby drinking was as bad as someone on PCP. Now if you read the phone transcripts and affadavits that were later released another story begins to emerge, one involving Tanner Wisdom. Now while Sebastian was an inherently good kid, Tanner is a piece of scum through and through. IR articles mentioned that the girl the fight was over had been involved in some way with Tanner and also that Tanner was afraid he was going to be in trouble with the cops because of the shootings. I have always believe that he should have been, first hand witnesses who were at the party Sebastian attended before the shooting say that Tanner was pushing drinks at Sebastian throughout the night. He also told Sebastian that the 15 year old girl involved was being abused by one of the boys and wanted to leave him to be with Tanner instead. While none of this excuses what Sebastian did it paints a different picture than the "evil monster" people are trying to portray him as. One only has to read the text transcripts between Sebastian (on Tanner's phone) and the three boys to know that they were far from angels and did quite a bit of instigating. No act is committed without some reasoning behind it justified or no and since you have absolutely no connection to this event or even all of the facts I suggest you stay out of it rather than push the issue. What's done is done; just remember that Corey, Khaner, and Joey's families were not the only ones destroyed that night.

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    1. ^^^^ love this.

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    2. This is Tanner Wisdom. My mother showed me this blog post after crying a great deal at work. If you think that I am scum; then ask yourself why are me and Kahner Leary sitting here reading this? After all that we have been through he is now my best and closest friend. My story has never changed and neither has my feeling concerning this horrible matter. I have lost countless nights of sleep and will continue to do so over Corey's wrongful death. Sea Bass is a monster and if you try and defend his insanity then you aren't much better yourself "Anonymous".

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  31. Listen this motherfucker shot me. And to get on here and see people trying to defend a murderer who was unprovoked in his actions is dispicable. Anybody who feels sorry for him obviously is unaware of how lucky he is to be locked up away from everyone who would like to get their hands on him.

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  32. Dead Mike, you are a dumb fuck, I cant even begin to tell you how far off on EVERYTHING you are, can you believe we have power, internet and oh my running water in Montana? Who the hell you think we are bunch of dumb ass hermits?! Keep your speculation and bullshit to yourself if you dont know what the fuck your talking about. Yes I live in Helena - and yes I know people involved in this situation. Yes I do realize this is 4 years old, so fuck you.

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