Monday, August 3, 2009

Cops Legitimately Kill Bronx Man

The Daily News reports on what they describe as a wild shooting in the Bronx, which left one suspect dead.

A Bronx man was mortally wounded by cops after he opened fire on them, sparking a fierce shootout on the street, police and witnesses said.

Oswaldo Sevilla Moran, 31, was shot in the chest during the gun battle with four uniformed cops in Longwood, the Bronx.

"He turned and fired several shots," a police source said of Sevilla Moran. "Our guys fell back behind a van and returned fire."

I don't like cops shooting people any more than the next guy, but I have to admit this one sounds legit. One of the reasons I don't like these incidents is this. ""This is as clean as it gets," said a police source of the shooting." That sounds to me like someone familiar with the "less clean" shootings.

Another thing that bothered me about this case is that reportedly 30 to 40 rounds were fired. That would be up to 10 rounds per police officer. I'd say something's wrong with that. I suppose that's what the Daily News reporter meant by "wild."

I couldn't help but notice how the whole thing started.

The gunfire erupted after a concerned citizen approached two patrol cops at Southern Blvd. and Avenue St. John about 2:30 a.m.

"That man has a gun," the witness told them, according to the source.

Assuming the shooting was as righteous as it sounds, I believe we have to credit the strict gun control laws in New York for this. As the pro-gun folks keep saying about gun laws, only the law abiding will obey them. As a result, it's easier to identify a potential offender. What do you think about that?

What's your opinion?


  1. 30 - 40 rounds. Not a problem for me. Unlike Hollywood, I realize that you can't use a handgun to hit a moving mansize target from 50 yards. Add in that he is firing back at you and the stress level goes up. Police are not invincible, and guns (even with 60 shots of qualification a year) do not make him an expert marksman.

    If you look at the war numbers, the US is using something on the order of 200,000 rounds for each bad guy killed. Two hundred thousand.

  2. Not to mention it's not unheard of for BG's to take 10+ hits without going down.

    How in the hell is this proof of success of gun control? The guy had a gun and he got into a shootout with the cops, in NEW YORK!

    Didn't he know that's totally illegal?! You can't legally carry a gun in NY, thanks to their awesome gun control laws.

  3. But people do carry guns in New York and you can get them pretty easily if you are connected because of the lousy gun control laws in other states!

    In 1980, I lived through a manhunt by rival drug gangs on East 5th Street in NYC. The guys on the street were screaming for everyone to keep away from windows and turn off the lights!
    The cops wouldn't even come down the block. The block between Ave.A and B had a very bad reputaion as a place where 3 cops had been killed in 2 years.

    We saw cop cars at the end of the block, but none dared to come down the street. Around 2am, they cornered their victim on a roof top on East 4th Street and did him in.
    Then it was a very very quiet late July night.

    You wouldn't believe it now. In April I was on the block and there was a HumVee decked out like a 50's suburban woodie station wagon.
    Lots of upscale restaurants and cute little shops.

    Mike, check out this story:

    It concerns a little lady with an obsession about the FEMA concentration camp myth and the hots for Glenn Beck and a car full of guns and ammo!

  4. Why do these types of shootings happen so frequently in places where gun laws are so strict?

    It seems the majority of shootouts mikeb posts about all occur in the Brady Campaign's top ranked states: California, New York, Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois.

    Logically, states like Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Louisiana should dominate the news with shootouts, seeing how guns minimally regulated in these places.

  5. If we can use tranquilizer darts for wild hippos and elephants, why not for people?

  6. Yeah, Daisy, I guess they're waiting for the Star Trek lasers to come out so they can set them to stun. Meantime, when they do have legitimate cause to kill, they comment on it in a way that indicates how rare it is.

    Reputo, that's an incredible statistic, the 200,000 per. I would be suspicious of inflated numbers, for obvious reasons, otherwise those boys are just shooting too much over there.

  7. AztecRed said, "Logically, states like Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Louisiana should dominate the news with shootouts, seeing how guns minimally regulated in these places."

    Actually, I've written about Kentucky and Oklahoma a few times, as well as other "gun-friendly" states.

    The fact that these things happen in Chicago and New York too, is due to trafficking of guns across borders, which is necessary for the very reason that the local gun laws do work.

  8. MikeB, I think you missed the point of AztekRed's post. If the presence of guns cause gun violence, wouldn't places that have "lax" gun laws have more violence? Why is it then that the places with the stricter gun laws have the most violence?

    Could it be maybe that the availability of guns don't really cause gun violence?

  9. mikeb,

    You keep repeating the trafficing canard over and over. That doesn't explain why gun friendly states don't have the same gun crime rates as Chicago, New York and DC. If guns are the cause then there should be mayhem in Oklahoma and Kentucky. According to your theory why isn't there?

  10. MikeB,

    Do you realize how utterly ridiculous this is?
    which is necessary for the very reason that the local gun laws do work.

    It is against the law for felons to have firearms? Is that working ????

    It is against the law to have a concealed weapon without a license in Chicago. Is that local law working?

    It is against the law to own a firearm without a Firearm Ownership ID in Illinois. Is that local law working?

    Hey, it is against the law to kill people (with or without a firearm) is that law working????

    Geesh. At least think about what you are saying. Vermont's gun laws are local...they are very laws. Those laws are working. Compare the freedoms and liberties in Chicago/Illinois, New York City/New York and Vermont or Alaska.

    Which Laws are working MikeB?

  11. should proof read my work.

    That should read that Vermont's laws are very lax.

  12. The trafficking canard, as Reputo put it, only partly explains it. The rest is that no one ever said gun availability is the only factor. You guys often pretend I'm saying that, but I'm not. There are many factors, gun availability being one. The thing is, the gun part of the equation is a very concrete one, which with proper laws and better enforcement of them, we could do something about. The other factors, education, social problems in the inner cities, drugs, are a bit harder to get a handle on.