Naples Mayor Bill Barnett expected a hard recoil when he joined Mayors Against Illegal Guns, but the fusillade of angry mail and phone calls startled him.
“We’ve been absolutely bombed with protest,” he said. “I’m not a radical and I don’t get involved in a lot of causes, but I joined this group because it seems like a reasonable organization.”The National Rifle Association has taken aim at the coalition of some 450 mayors -- 45 of them in Florida -- alerting gun owners that the group will lobby Congress to end “reciprocity” among states that issue concealed-weapons permits, tighten restrictions on sales at weekend gun shows and weaken privacy protections for gun owners.
Former NRA President Marion Hammer is now one of the most influential lobbyists in Tallahassee. He explains the reason for such a strong response from gun owners: the MAIG group really wants to spread New York-style gun control far and wide.
Now, that's not what I've been hearing. I've been hearing that the mayors really want to eliminate and eventually confiscate guns, to eradicate them to the great detriment of the gun owning public. What President Hammer said is quite different, though.
Tallahassee Mayor John Marks, another member of MAIG had this to say.
“The three things to remember are, it’s designed to keep criminals from having illegal guns, there’s no intent whatsoever to deny or infringe on any law-abiding citizen’s Second Amendment rights and we want to do everything we can to assist law enforcement,” said Marks. “That’s all there is to it.”
The mayors are lobbying Congress, mainly because they want background checks done at gun shows, just like they're done in retail stores, and because “each state should respect the other states” by not making states that ban concealed weapons honor licenses from states that allow them.
What's your opinion? Are the Mayors Against Illegal Guns hostile towards gun owners like some say? Do you think it's possible to have "New York-style gun control" far and wide and still not interfere with the rights of lawful gun owners?
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
"Are the Mayors Against Illegal Guns hostile towards gun owners like some say?"
ReplyDeleteWhen you're a member of organization founded by Michael Bloomberg, can you be anything but hostile towards gun owners?
When you join an organization like MAIG, you give tacit approval to every hostile action Bloomberg takes towards gun owners.
So yes, the members of MAIG are hostile towards gun owners, if for no other reason than simply being associated with Michael Bloomberg.
"Do you think it's possible to have "New York-style gun control" far and wide and still not interfere with the rights of lawful gun owners?"
No. Bloomberg and his New York style of gun control interferes with the rights of lawful gun owners every day by creating and maintaining a system where only a privileged few can legally carry guns. Bloomberg and his New York style of gun control interferes with the rights of lawful gun owners by bullying them into registering firearms when they aren't legally required to be registered.
Your ignorance is astounding but maybe I can help.
ReplyDelete"The mayors are lobbying Congress, mainly because they want background checks done at gun shows, just like they're done in retail stores, and because “each state should respect the other states” by not making states that ban concealed weapons honor licenses from states that allow them."
Sorry to break it to you, but background checks are already performed when buying from a dealer at a gun show. Further, no background check is required when buying from a private individual whether it's inside or outside of a gun show.
Show me where any state law forces it to honor a CCW from another state when the home state bans CCW.
Can't do it?
I'm shocked.
kaveman, I'm not as ignorant as you think, or at least not as ignorant as you say I am.
ReplyDeleteI understand completely that background checks are required when dealing with an FFL guy. And I understand that "gun shows" have nothing to do with anything. What everybody is saying, at least everybody with any sense, is we need background checks on ALL transfers, private ones as well as ones from the FFL gun dealer.
And about the reciprocity, don't you think a strict gun state can require that people visiting their state should follow the same rules as the residents? Is that so outlandish?
But mainly, understand this. Nobody's ignorant around here. We just have differing opinions and differing ways of looking at things.
"And about the reciprocity, don't you think a strict gun state can require that people visiting their state should follow the same rules as the residents?"
ReplyDeleteThat's ALREADY THE CASE for states that have reciprocity.
You did know that, right?
MikeB, I think you may have missed the point on reciprocity. Reciprocity does not change the state law on concealed carry in any way. You still have to obey the laws of the state you are standing in. All reciprocity does is recognize a license from another state.
ReplyDeleteWhat Bloomberg and MAIG opposes is National Recirocity. [Since I know you love car analogies :) ] We already have national reciprocity of driver's licenses. If I go to New York, I do not have to get a New York driver's license while I am there to drive a car. I do, however, have to obey New York driving laws.
National Reciprocity of concealed carry would operate the same way. When going to New York, I could carry on my Ohio license. However, I would still have to obey the silly New York restrictions and laws while there.
Ohio and Kentucky have full reciprocity now. Ohio has a silly law that does not let you carry a firearm in a restaurant that has a bar in it while Kentucky does not. A Kentucky license holder can sit in a restaurant with his family armed while in Kentucky but if he crosses the river, he can no longer do that. His Kentucky license does not let him circumvent Ohio law.
In case you haven't figured it out, MAIG lies. They misrepresented the Thune Amendment just like they lied about the Tiart Amendment. They are an anti-gun group and an enemy of the U.S. Constitution.
"the MAIG group really wants to spread New York-style gun control far and wide."
ReplyDelete"Now, that's not what I've been hearing. I've been hearing that the mayors really want to eliminate and eventually confiscate guns, to eradicate them to the great detriment of the gun owning public."
What do you think "New York Style" gun control is? You seem to forget the other founding member, Chicago Mayor Daley. You seem to forget another primary financier, the Joyce Foundation, that has called for bans on everything from handguns, to 'semi-autos', to bolt action rifles.
MAIG wants all sales to go through FFL dealers. With the other tongue, they want to revoke the "Lawful Commerce in Arms" act so they can return to third party lawsuits designed to bankrupt firearms dealers.
Think there's a connection?
Third - Once you ban private sales you can regulate FFL's out of existence. (or ban them as Obama proposed)
ReplyDeleteLegal gun ownership will drop when there's nowhere to buy guns legally, or you have to drive 100+ miles away to get to the nearest FFL.
Of course that's the point of all gun control regulations. To slowly but surely reduce civilian gun ownership.
Says Mikeb:
ReplyDeleteDo you think it's possible to have "New York-style gun control" far and wide and still not interfere with the rights of lawful gun owners?
I dunno, Mikeb--you tell me. Tell me how it's possible to have the style of "gun control" in which a man who had broken ZERO laws is evilly, relentlessly, implacably harassed for having an unregistered flintlock. Sure, he eventually prevailed (since Bloomberg hasn't yet managed to make possession of unregistered flintlocks illegal), but at what cost (in legal fees, missed work, etc.)?
Here's some more "New York-style 'gun control'" for you: New York City, at Bloomberg's urging, has banned gun paint.
MAIG claims to be opposed only to "illegal guns"--what Bloomberg doesn't say (but has made obvious with the above-mentioned actions, and many others) is that he wants all privately owned firearms to be "illegal guns."
Lauer Custom Weaponry went down on their knees and thanked god for Bloomberg when he started attacking Duracoat. He was the best salesman they ever had.
ReplyDeletehttp://firearmsandfreedom.com/2008/08/19/lauer-and-bloomberg/
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2000876&id=1252620801#/photo.php?pid=30024065&id=1252620801
"What's your opinion? Are the Mayors Against Illegal Guns hostile towards gun owners like some say?"
ReplyDeleteYes, they are.
"Do you think it's possible to have "New York-style gun control" far and wide and still not interfere with the rights of lawful gun owners?
No, I do not. But Bloomberg seems to think so.
But what I also know is that sixteen million dollars of Bloomberg money cannot buy the resolve of millions of Americans who value their fundamental rights.
All right, can we agree on this? You guys just don't like Bloomberg very much.
ReplyDeleteFWM, Comparing the reciprocity of guns idea to cars is worse than some of the other comparisons we've seen around here. If New York state does not allow its citizens to go around with concealed guns, how can you think it would be acceptable for someone from Texas to visit NY and carry a gun? That makes no sense.
"If New York state does not allow its citizens to go around with concealed guns, how can you think it would be acceptable for someone from Texas to visit NY and carry a gun?"
ReplyDeleteUmmm, they do. I know several people who live in NY who Conceal carry legally all the time.
Do you WANT to look stupid, Mike?
MikeB,
ReplyDeleteWhat comparison to firearms is acceptable to you?
It seems that everything we come up with doesn't work for you, but you don't have a good reason for why it doesn't work.
People Kill people using cars
People Kill people using guns.
People die accidentally using swimming pools.
People die accidentally using firearms.
People commit crimes with knives
People commit crimes with firearms.
And you say those aren't valid comparisons?
So, tell us Only Person Who Knows What Comparison Is Valid, what can we compare firearms to?
Right you are, Weer'd, although that crack about my wanting to look stupid was unnecessary. But you can't help yourself, can you?
ReplyDeleteI should have said, "If New York state does not allow its citizens to go around with concealed guns unless they meet certain requirements, how can you think it would be acceptable for someone from Texas, which has lower requirements, to visit NY and carry a gun?"
But, you knew exactly what I meant. Didn't you?
My own thinking is that comparison with carry licenses and driver licenses has value. I will opine that the comparison is limited mostly by the fact that carrying guns is a specifically protected right of the people.
ReplyDeleteStates have different standards for issuance of carry licenses, just like driver licenses.
Below is a comparison of state driver license requirements on issues that are relevant to immigrants. There are many other differences as well. So, we know that carry license requirements vary, as do driver license requirements. But any state-issued driver license is recognized by any other state, but that's not the case with carry licenses. It soon will be ... it must be.
http://www.nilc.org/immspbs/dls/state_dl_rqrmts_ovrvw_2009-04-27.pdf
And to come back to this ... the second amendment guarantees the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. Driving an automobile is hardly an enumerated, guaranteed right (even though the right to travel is an unenumerated, guaranteed right).
Come On MikeB,
ReplyDeleteTell us what we can compare firearms to?
So Mike, Because my state has a very strict requirements to issue a carry permit, My Mass permit should be good everywhere, right?
ReplyDeleteI'm just trying to follow your logic.
Can you explain that to me?
"I should have said, "If New York state does not allow its citizens to go around with concealed guns unless they meet certain requirements, how can you think it would be acceptable for someone from Texas, which has lower requirements, to visit NY and carry a gun?"
ReplyDeleteWAKE UP!
States that have reciprocity require that citizens that have a valid CCW permit follow ALL LAWS in the state they are visiting.
But you knew that, right?