"Crime is down," is a phrase New Yorkers are getting used to hearing. The notorious peeks in crime during 1970s and '80s, when the city was thought of as dangerous and neglected, gave way in the late 1990s to a steady decrease that has given New York's politicians something to crow about. Mayor Michael Bloomberg certainly hasn't been shy about taking credit for the increased perception of safety on city streets."At the end of 2001 the consensus was that crime could not go any lower," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne, "but now we are down 35 percent lower than any of the Giuliani years, and the Giuliani administration built its reputation around crime fighting."
In fact, Browne said, if current trends continue, New York is on track this year to have the lowest homicide rate since 1962, when modern record keeping began.
The Deputy Police Commissioner credits Bloomberg's crusade against illegal guns. His organization, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, has waged a full-out assault on the influx of guns into New York from out of state, and Browne said the impact can be felt on the street.
"Stopping the flow of illegal guns into the city has been extremely important," said Browne.
The Gotham Gazette article expresses concern on two fronts. Police on the streets have increasingly used a controversial policy called "stop and frisk." It's controversial for the obvious reasons, blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately selected for the treatment. Yet, supporters say it gets results. The other concern is the ever-increasing electronic surveillance present in the city. Privacy is not what it used to be.
What's your opinion? Are these small prices to pay considering that New York can now boast of being the safest big city in the country? Do you think Bloomberg deserves credit for this? Are his questionable sting operations paying off in his home territory?
Do you agree that the strict gun laws in New York are partly responsible for the improvement?
What's your opinion?
Do the ends justify the means?
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I don't want to live in a police state.
Do you even read the articles you link to?
ReplyDelete"Bloomberg's push to rid New York City of illegal guns has seen results. The number of guns recovered from crime scenes in the city dropped by 13 percent from last year. The number of people shot to death dropped from 347 in 2007 to 292 in 2008. Overall, murders increased from 2007 to 2008, but only due to an increase in crimes committed with knives."
Wow, it's almost as if it's a people problem, not a weapons issue.
Remember Kaveman, for MikeB only "gun crime" counts. It doesn't matter to him that NYC saw a net increase in murders only that there were fewer with guns.
ReplyDeleteIf he acknowledged that murders didn't decrease he'd have to admit that gun control doesn't save lives or lower crime.
I don't know if Bloomberg has kept up the Giuliani zero tolerance initiative. Most city cops hate it, but arresting people for minor crimes (e.g., littering) does provide for an arrest which can net other things (e.g., drugs or guns).
ReplyDeleteI am unsure whether NYCs gun laws would be solely to credit. Not sure how his civil suits really do either.
Initiatives such as one gun a month do cut the supply of illegal guns. Also, enforcement of gun laws by various jurisdictions are helpful in stemming illegal purchases.
Registration does help since criminals aren't likely to register their guns. Additionally, it deters people from selling illegally.
Reporting lost and stolen firearms is also helpful for stemming the tide. I cite this since I asked ATF about stolen guns. The Agent replied that usually that was an excuse for gun runners. Of course, I am not sure how much weight I place on that comment, but I consider it.
It would be a combination of policing and limiting the amount of firearms in the streets.
Is that the same New York - the one also called the Big Apple- the one with strict gun-control laws?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if that might be just a, well you know, a coincidence?
"Registration does help since criminals aren't likely to register their guns."
ReplyDeleteCriminals are not required by law to register their guns due to their 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination.
Only lawful gun owners must register their weapons in NY.
Registration does help since criminals aren't likely to register their guns. Additionally, it deters people from selling illegally.
ReplyDeletePlease explain how. Use logic if you're capable.
Initiatives such as one gun a month do cut the supply of illegal guns.
Cite factual evidence that 1 gun a month laws have directly decreased the supply of illegal guns.
Initiatives such as one gun a month do cut the supply of illegal guns.
ReplyDeleteBecause it keeps criminals from buying only one gun a month?
or.....
It keeps law-abiding individuals from buying only one illegal gun a month?
Looks like your hitched yourself to a real winner here mikey.
(although both you and Laci share an almost incomparable ability to ignore the obvious)
Someone whose guns are registered with the police is less likely to sell them since they will be traced back to the seller. I won't get into the mechanics of prosecution, but it does indeed deter.
ReplyDeleteMikeW, are you stupid enough that you would sell a gun to learn it was found at a crime scene: especially a murder?
5th Amendment right against incrimination? Hunh?
The 5th amendment doesn't work to well if the crim is found in possession of an unregistered firearm. The cops says we found this firearm on the defendant, the DA says we did a registration check and the gun was unregistered. Hey presto, client goes away to Riker's Island!
First off, Virginia has gone down in the amount of its guns used at crime scenes. But this article as well
"Effects of limiting handgun purchases on interstate transfer of firearms"
Weil, Douglas S., Knox, Rebecca C.
Publisher: American Medical Association
Publication Name: JAMA, The Journal of the American Medical Association
Subject: Health
ISSN: 0098-7484
Year: 1996
"Is that the same New York - the one also called the Big Apple- the one with strict gun-control laws?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if that might be just a, well you know, a coincidence?"
No Muddy it isn't. New York has strict gun control laws, and gun crime dropped.
Of course murder rose. But you and MikeB know that being stabbed is better than being shot, because guns make you more dead!
Laci said, "Someone whose guns are registered with the police is less likely to sell them since they will be traced back to the seller."
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly the point I've made in response to the pro-gun mantra that criminals don't obey laws so what good are they?
Some laws are aimed at the law abiding in order to make it harder for criminals to get guns. All those kitchen-table transfers, not to mention the unlicensed sales at gun shows, if carefully recorded and registered properly, would no longer be a source of leakage, the flow of guns from good guys to bad guys would slow to a trickle.
"the flow of guns from good guys to bad guys would slow to a trickle."
ReplyDeleteNo it wouldn't as private sales were never a significant source of crime guns.
AztecRed, What is a "significant source of crime guns" then?
ReplyDeleteRegistering guns is effective because people picked up with unregistered weapons automatically have a charge against them.
ReplyDeleteThis is the same thing with CCW. If you don't issue many CCWs, most people carrying are going to be illegal. All the police need to do is stop them for something, which could be something as small as jaywalking, and the gun and the man are theirs.
Pro-gunners fool themselves when they think no gun control laws work There are lots of different laws and some of the laws actually do work quite well and put a lot of criminals in jail.
"Someone whose guns are registered with the police is less likely to sell them since they will be traced back to the seller. I won't get into the mechanics of prosecution, but it does indeed deter."
ReplyDeleteit certainly does, that's why people looking to operate above boards work to facilitate the registration process. Criminals? Not-so-Much.
"Registering guns is effective because people picked up with unregistered weapons automatically have a charge against them."
First up, how much of a charge is non-registration?
Of course 'round these parts non-registration usually also comes with carry without a permit, and possession of a firearm by a felon.
More redundant laws. And it doesn't do shit for stopping crime!
Wanna know how I know? I live in a state that has mandatory background check for private sale (though Firearms ID) mandatory registration of all firearms.
Working SO GOOD here, believe me.
But I'll let any of you show me otherwise. (You'll note that Anon, dropped the "the woman with the earrings" defense:
http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2009/09/uncannily_appropriate.html