I see a lot of drivel spouted by US Gun cretins. The first being "gun rights".
There have never been Gun Rights in British Common law.
After that is the inflated "gun crime" statistic. You can find the actual UK gun crime statistics here. Note that imitation, airguns, and replica arms account for a majority of gun incidents (12569 imitation, airguns, and replica v. 4774 handgun and shotgun out of a total 17343 for 2007/08). Additionally, total "firearms" offences have been declining, rather than increasing: Source.
The British Gun Control Network has a list of Gun Incidents, which they admit is only around 10% of the figure, but they give an idea of what "gun crime" in the UK is like. You should also remember that The Gun Cotrol Network's objectives are "predicated on the belief that the interests of public safety demand a reduction in the availability and attractiveness of guns of all kinds".
You will note that the "gun" incidents listed by the Gun Control Network include: blank firing guns, replica firearms, airguns, stun guns, paintball guns, and even toy guns! That vastly stacks the deck when it comes to "gun crime".
I always take statistics with a grain of salt. There are too many times when opposing groups both come up with credible stats to prove they're right. But this is something else again. Laci summed it up nicely.
So, next time you mention how "gun crime is out of control in the UK" remember that this figure is far more encompassing than US gun crime. I mean think of what the gun ownership would be like if they added toy guns to the amount of REAL guns in circulation in the US!
What do you think? Is comparing U.S. to U.K. gun violence like comparing apples to oranges, or what?
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Gun crime isn't the whole story. Related is that criminals armed with un-bannable weapons can easily terrorize decent people without significant risk of reprisal. If you break into someone's house, or use a deadly weapon to coerce, you should risk death.
ReplyDelete"I always take statistics with a grain of salt. There are too many times when opposing groups both come up with credible stats to prove they're right."
ReplyDeleteEspecially coming from a liar like Laci!
"What do you think? Is comparing U.S. to U.K. gun violence like comparing apples to oranges, or what?"
Well there's a reason why anti-gun creeps are the only ones who seem to care about a bullshit made-up term like "Gun Violence".
If you want to talk VIOLENCE, Laci won't be so smug.
And I suspect you won't want to talk about THAT at all!
MikeB,
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that if someone pulls a replica firearm and uses it in a crime that it shouldn't be counted as a gun crime?
Is the victim supposed to ask the criminal if it is a "real" gun, a starter pistol converted to fire 'real' bullet's, an airgun or just a bar of soap carved to look like a gun?
Come on, if the criminal is using something that looks like a gun, it is a "gun crime".
Isn't that reason you and the other gun control advocates want to do away with Airsoft guns and realistic looking guns?
Can't you be at least a little consistent?
Laci is flat out wrong as usual and has to use "facts" from anti-gunners to try and make her point.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html?ITO=1490
Read the link MikeB
Weer'd - You're not kidding. Laci tells some whoppers. No wonder she won't allow comments. I wouldn't either if I was vile and full of shit.
ReplyDeleteDifferent countries count crime differently, such that it makes comparisons dubious. But there have been reports that show the UK has a violent crime rate that's higher than the US. British criminals commit murder far less than American criminals do, however.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, our gun crime rate is higher, but does that matter if the violent crime rate overall doesn't drop? I don't really want to get knifed on the streets any more than I want to get shot.
"There have never been Gun Rights in British Common law."
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone has ever denied that. The British has always been subjects, not citizens.
After reading around on the GCN site and the INFER site, the UK looks like a pretty sad place to not only be a gun owner, but a human being of any kind who values freedom.
I'm glad I don't live there.
With that said, where do handguns in the UK come from? Why are there any crimes at all committed with handguns when the police collected them all years ago? Handgun offenses outnumber shotgun offenses by as much as 4-to-1 in some years, despite handguns being illegal and shotguns being legal.
That makes it pretty obvious that the gun control laws aren't really the determining factor in the UK's low number of offenses.
The murder rate is lower there because the guns are fewer.
ReplyDeleteIf given a choice of being attacked with a gun or a knife, what would you pick?
Bob, I think the point was what Sebastian said, that comparisons between countries are "dubious."
Depends on the kind of gun and the kind of knife. I'd take my chances against your average untrained criminal with a gun. It's hard to come out of a knife fight uncut even if your opponent isn't much of a fighter.
ReplyDeleteThe murder rate in the UK has always been lower than the US, even when neither country had much in the way of gun control.
"If given a choice of being attacked with a gun or a knife, what would you pick? "
ReplyDeleteWhichever given that I can have my .45 by my side.
Because that's the ONLY way I'd stand a chance against an armed street thug.
It is hard to compare the U.S. and the U.K. on such like terms when they are obviously so different.
ReplyDeleteThe UK routinely charges victims of crime with a crime if they defend themselves from criminals. That place is truly messed up.
Great Britain used to be, well, great. Now it has become a bastion of lunacy.
Just saw a story from the Daily Mail that says gun crime is up 89% in the UK and some areas have a five-fold increase.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see that gun control is working so well over there. How about they ban something else like unemployment?
If given a choice of being attacked with a gun or a knife, what would you pick?
ReplyDeleteDepends on the type of attack. If we are talking about a typical criminal scenario, I'd probably rather they have a gun--knife wounds are not trivial, and knives don't run out of ammo.
Of course, I'd rather a gun, if I'm going to defend-It is more likely than a knife to cause a retreat or surrender, and I'm less likely to get injured in the process.
Quoting the Daily Mail is the rough equivalent of quoting a supermarket tabloid.
ReplyDeleteFrom a reputable paper, the Guardian:
Over the last six months gun crime has risen by 17% on last year, with 1,736 gun crimes reported in London between April and September this year – 252 more than the same period last year.
Compare this figure to NYC which has a similar population to London.
Likewise, compare the figures to those of the United States.
UK gun crime is still negligable compared to the US.
Laci said:
ReplyDelete"From a reputable paper, the Guardian:
Over the last six months gun crime has risen by 17% on last year, with 1,736 gun crimes reported in London between April and September this year – 252 more than the same period last year."
Laci, OK, I know little about the Guardian or the Daily Mail so I'll accept your numbers. It does not matter what paper you quote from or what country, city or village you compare it to. The point is gun control is a failure in England as well as every other place it is tried.
Quoting the Daily Mail is the rough equivalent of quoting a supermarket tabloid.
ReplyDeleteHaha, this coming from a woman who uses "Gun Control Network" as her source for "gun facts"
http://www.gun-control-network.org/GCN02.htm
But MikeW Remember, Laci is a "Lawyer"!
ReplyDeleteI have my doubts as to whether she's a lawyer. I don't think a lawyer would write so poorly.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't put the quotes around "Lawyer" She gets the quotes because she went to "Law School" and "Passed the Bar"
ReplyDeleteMake sure to treat Laci and her appeal to authority with the due respect you gun-cretin!
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