When Hopler shot himself in the leg last year, I declared that I'm opposed to blind folks owning guns. That was met with the usual blowback from the gun crowd. But, I remain unconvinced.
Mr. Hopler, 49, who lives on a winding road here, is once again fighting for his right to keep and bear arms despite having been totally blind for most of his adult life. He has repeatedly persuaded judges to let him keep his collection of more than a dozen handguns, but doing so has been more complicated since 2008, when he was handling a .357 Magnum he owned and shot himself in the shin.
Not only did he shoot himself, which for me is an automatic disqualifier, but while he was in the hospital from that stupidity, burglars entered his house and took some guns, one of which was used in a suicide. You see, having the right to own guns for Hopler and many like him, means leaving them lying around the house is perfectly acceptable. "they [the police] found one loaded pistol in an oven mitt and another gun tucked under a sofa cushion."
Then, there's the question of his drinking. Once, he was even arrested for being disorderly in a bar, another disqualifier for me.
The reason he's in the news again is that the Morris County prosecutor’s office is trying to have Mr. Hopler’s gun permits revoked.
What's your opinion? Isn't it odd that in New Jersey where gun control is strong there's no provision for an eye examination prior to issuing a gun permit? Shouldn't that be one of the main qualifiers?
If I understood correctly, in Hopler's case we're talking about gun permits to own guns in the home, not concealed carry. That means in other states more lenient than New Jersey, blind folks or people otherwise handicapped in such a way as to make safe gun handling impossible can own guns all they want.
That's wrong and something should be done about it. Kudos to the Morris County Porsecutor who decided to pursue this case. Good luck.
Please leave a comment.
Usually, I would support whole heartedly giving all people who are disabled the same rights as the rest of us. In some cases, I would argue for preferential treatment for the disabled, as in hiring incentives for companies hiring disabled returning vets.
ReplyDeleteBut on the same basis that we don't allow children or the mentally incompetent to have or use firearms, we shouldn't allow the blind or those who are otherwise unable safely to use firearms to have them. This guy clearly is one of those people.
Btw, this 'not allowing those who are disabled such that they cannot safely use a firearm' could reasonably include some of those who suffer from traumatic brain injuries, Alzheimer's, or other dementia, etc. from firearms. Also some PTSD and severe clinical depression.
ReplyDeleteOoops! Forgot to add epilepsy to the list...
ReplyDeleteHow about diabetes? Nearsightedness? Migraines? Allergies? Dog Gone, you really do need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you lay down such blanket pronouncements.
ReplyDeleteWhat all of this does is make me thankful that none of you is in charge of the gun laws of this country.
The sad thing in this case is that any state requires permits even to own a firearm. That's just grotesque. We're not talking about carrying in public here. This is simply to own a gun in one's home. The Morris County Persecutor should be thrown out of office for pursuing this.
ReplyDeleteDog Gone,
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you just admit that any excuse is a good excuse to keep people from owning firearms?
GC, why don't you admit that not every person should be having their hands on firearms?
ReplyDeleteOr do you think that people with dementia make good firearm owners?
I had a great aunt who late in her life was afflicted with Alzheimer's; she actually threatened someone with a loaded rifle. Removing the rifle from her was actually easier than getting her car and her keys away from her; but I have to admit that a family member simply took it away from her possession; it was not accomplished through the more correct process of a legal determination.
Do you know the stats on just Alzheimer's alone? It is not the only form of dementia. I subscribe to the email updates from the Alzheimer's association:
Today, 5.4 million Americans are living with
Alzheimer’s disease – 5.2 million aged 65 and
over; 200,000 with younger-onset Alzheimer’s.
By 2050, as many as 16 million Americans will
have the disease.
• Another American develops Alzheimer’s disease
every 69 seconds. In 2050, an American will
develop the disease every 33 seconds.
Of Americans aged 65 and over, 1 in 8 has
Alzheimer’s, and nearly half of people aged 85
and older have the disease.
•
Most people survive an average of four to eight
years after an Alzheimer’s diagnosis, but some
live as long as 20 years with the disease.
• Four percent of the general population will be
admitted to a nursing home by age 80. But, for
people with Alzheimer’s, 75 percent will be
admitted to a nursing home by age 80.
Alzheimer’s disease has profound
implications for government budgets.
On average, 40 percent of a person’s years with
Alzheimer’s are spent in the most severe stage of
the disease – longer than any other stage.
Why do you want blind people or people with dementia or any of the other people who should not have a firearm because they are a danger to have them? This is exactly the kind of thing that we see as irrational.
Greg Camp said...
ReplyDeleteHow about diabetes? Nearsightedness? Migraines? Allergies? Dog Gone, you really do need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you lay down such blanket pronouncements.
Except that none of the conditions I wrote were ridiculous, while all of the ones you suggested were.
We don't allow blind people to drive, because being able to see is a requirement of doing so safely. We don't allow people with epilepsy to do so either, for the reason that they are a danger if they have a seizure while behind the wheel.
Or don't you see that as a problem to safe gun use?
I do.
Sneezing......not so much.
I guess that is the hallmark of losing an argument IS resorting to statements like this, isn't it?
Once again, you dump irrelevant facts on us. Alzheimer's disease is a serious problem, and I recognize the pain that it causes anyone who experiences it, either personally or as a family member. But what is your point? I know, and you know the facts. Why do you keep fillibustering?
ReplyDeleteShould a blind person drive a car? No, unless he has Chris O'Donnell sitting beside him. (Or the Mythbusters, if you saw that episode.) But should we ban blind people from owning cars? No.
You trust the government to make choices for us. I trust people to make their own choices. That's the only difference here.
"You trust the government to make choices for us. I trust people to make their own choices. That's the only difference here.
ReplyDeleteNovember 28, 2011 3:47 PM"
Blind people should be allowed to own and use handguns?
You're off your fucking nut.
Democommie,
ReplyDeleteI'm just tired of these lists of who is allowed to own a firearm. We don't need permission to own guns. That's the point.
Greg Camp:
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm tired of your being an idiot about commonsense practices. You would not give a drivers license to a blind man. You would not allow a person to shout "fire" in a crowded public space--when there is no fire--without their being subject to prosecution.
Arming the blind with guns is FUCKING STUPID. Your dogged determination that you and your gunzloonz pals have an ABSOLUTE and UNRESTRICTED RIGHT to own and use teh gunz flies in the face of common sense.
Greg, I think you're the one with the unreasonable position about guns. Not, this what you accuse us of.
ReplyDelete"Why don't you just admit that any excuse is a good excuse to keep people from owning firearms?"
Can we stick to blindness for a moment. Do you say yes the the right to own a gun, yes or no?
Does a blind person have the right to own a firearm? Yes.
ReplyDeleteDoes a blind person have the right to own a car? Yes.
Does a blind person have the right to own any legal product? Yes.
It's that simple. I trust people to make their own decisions about legal products. Your side doesn't.
"Does a blind person have the right to own a car? Yes."
ReplyDeleteUntil he demonstrates that he is going to drive it.
Remember; cars don't kill people, blind people driving cars kill people.
Your all consuming paranoia about gunz confiscation (because at the end this is what you always go on about) blinds YOU to the fact that what you're suggesting is ridiculous. Why would a blind person want gunz? For hunting, self-defense, what?
democommie wrote:
ReplyDelete"Why would a blind person want gunz? For hunting, self-defense, what? "
To stroke them like Gollum with the ring in the Tolkein trilogy? Do you have the slightest doubt that guns are a fetish for this guy?
Ewwwwwwwww
Why don't all of you explain why you care whether a blind person owns a gun? I understand that you'd be upset if said person walked around pointing it at people, but we're talking about owning it. It makes more sense to talk about behavior than about objects when it comes to violence or mishaps.
ReplyDeleteThere are also relative degrees of blindness. Legally blind doesn't necessarily mean that the person cannot see.
Who's going to run the system, if we ban blind people from owning guns? What if a man has the gun license that you want, but then he loses his sight. Who's going to make a record of that fact and come demand his guns? Can you see the violation of medical privacy invovled there?
You, Dog Gone especially, want to meddle in the affairs of others. Why is that?
Why?
ReplyDeleteBecause if he did try to use a firearm,he could not do so safely.
Because he does not-- from previous thefts, responsibly secure his firearms.
Because he is dangerous, as evidenced that he has already shot himself once that we know about; we don't know what other accidents he may have had.
I can't actually come up with a good justification, given that list of facts, for this guy to have firearms.
And neither can you.
Dog Gone,
ReplyDeleteI can give you a perfect justification: He wants them. In our economic system, we can buy any legal product that we can afford.
What I really want to know is how you can live with the knowledge that there are people in this world who get away with not following your rules every day. That must be the kind of itch that you just can't scratch, no matter how hard you try.
MTV Award for the best question goes to Dog Gone.
ReplyDelete"To stroke them like Gollum with the ring in the Tolkein trilogy?"
Greg, a blind guy cannot adhere to the 4 Rules of Gun Safety. It's not physically possible for him to do so. Therefore he cannot own guns safely. What the hell's wrong with you, man. Most of your arguments make sense, but with this one you're showing your true colors.
MTV Award for the best question goes to Dog Gone.
ReplyDelete"To stroke them like Gollum with the ring in the Tolkein trilogy?"
It's not such a stretch. Imagine the movie Gollum in the same sun glasses and then take a look at this guy - he could be Gollum's plumper, crabbier brother.
I can totally see him licking his lips and petting his guns, calling them PRECIOUS.
Mikeb302000,
ReplyDeleteMy argument is based on the notion that individuals have the right to make choices, unless they harm others.
Dog Gone,
When you run out of attacks on me, you turn to ad hominem attacks on blind people? Put your picture on-line for our evaluation, then.