Friday, December 9, 2011

Another Example of Firearms Being Dangerous in Violence Against Women and Children

This incident is significant because it reflects several key points. A woman and children died from a firearm, and because of the possible sale of a weapon involved in the killings, through the gun show / private sale loophole.

That would be the loophole that some of our commenters keep insisting doesn't exist; except that it appears clearly it DOES exist.  Note enlarged bolded type is my emphasis - DG.
From and the AP:

Okla. authorities charge man in deaths of 2 girls

OKEMAH, Okla. --  A three-year-long hunt for a suspect in the fatal shootings of two young girls in eastern Oklahoma ended Friday when authorities announced murder charges against a man already in custody for an unrelated killing.
Okfuskee County prosecutors charged Kevin Sweat, 25, with first-degree murder in the deaths of Taylor Placker, 13, and Skyla Whitaker, 11, two friends who were found shot multiple times in June 2008. Sweat was already in custody in connection with the death of his girlfriend, Ashley Taylor.
"We were always hopeful that we would come to this point," Okfuskee County District Attorney Max Cook said. A bill of particulars has been filed in the case, a first step toward seeking the death penalty against Sweat, Cook said.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents pored over 900 leads, performed 19,000 forensic tests on 800 pieces of evidence and conducted hundreds of interviews in the high-profile case, OSBI director Stan Florence said. He thanked the victims' families for their patience.
"They have endured a terrible ordeal," Florence said.
Earlier, the OSBI identified one of two weapons used in the killings as a .40-caliber Glock model 22. They released the serial number of the weapon, EKG463US, in the hope that someone would come forward with it.
Sweat may have tried to sell that gun at a gun show in Tulsa this March, officials said. A reward of $5,000 reward is being offered for the firearm.
The arrests come more than three years after family members discovered the girls along an unpaved road less than a half-mile from Placker's home. They had been headed for Bad Creek Bridge, where they planned to wade through waist-high weeds to the river bank to collect shells and pebbles.
Their deaths were one of a series of tragedies to strike the town of barely 900 people.
Weleetka residents also have been shaken in recent years by a house fire that killed six people; the death of a beloved youth minister in an oil tank explosion; and a fire that tore through several downtown buildings.


  1. Sorry. There is no loophole unless you define "loophole" as a law you do not like.

    For the rest of the world a "loophole" in a law is where an unintentional ambiguity in a law allows the intent of the law to be circumvented. Since private sales were not only never intended to be included by the Brady law, NICS or FFL's but also specifically exempted from inclusion, there is no "loophole". None. Doesn't exist. Never did exist.

    Now, so where did it say the criminal got his guns at a private sale or gunshow?

  2. Gun show loophole is a really catchy phrase though. I think they'll keep using it, right or wrong.

  3. "Gun show loophole is a really catchy phrase though. I think they'll keep using it, right or wrong."

    Being wrong hasn't stopped them yet.

  4. I need to start going to gun shows. I could use that $5k reward.

  5. One of the numerous reasons that gunzloonz are thought to be dishonest and disingenuous is that, well, they are.

    The loophole isn't IN the law. The loophole is one of the situations that the law did not address. This may have been because the original bill's authors didn't know that the gunzloonz would seize on the LACK of a provision addressing the sales of gunz by unlicensed sellers OR because the original bill was changed in committee.

    FatWhiteMan and others piously declare that no loophole exists, while ignoring that the "private sales" of firearms is a burgeoning business that is the result of an "end around" the law. I am happy when some shitty law that is causing harm to people does not address a situation where people can flout the intent of the law and do what needs to be done.

    Providing gunz to felons and the mentally unbalanced is not covered under that situation.

    I would really have to be deep into denial to think that allowing dangerous people to have access to guns--which they then use to commit crimel--is a laudable action.

  6. " The loophole is one of the situations that the law did not address."

    The law did address it. As FWM said, private sales were specifically exempted from the Brady Bill.

    Of course, none of this would be an issue if it weren't for the fact that gun banners fought to have "kitchen table dealers" shut down, ensuring that that the avid private seller could not conduct background checks.

  7. "The loophole isn't IN the law. The loophole is one of the situations that the law did not address."

    But the law DID address it and specifically exempted it. Its not a loophole, its a feature.

    "...OR because the original bill was changed in committee."

    You are correct. The creators of the original Brady bill wanted to include all sales but they could not get it passed so the law was re-written to specifically exclude private sales. Again, no loophole--the law does not unintentionally omit private sales but instead specifically, intentionally excludes them. There would have probably been no Brady bill had it included private transfers.

  8. FatWhiteMan:

    You're arguing semantics. You know full well that the ORIGINAL version of the Bill did address the issue. Subsequent to it's introduction, as you suggest,it was changed to make the process of evading the laws provisions possible for those who were willing to bend the definition of "private sale" to include people running for profit businesses dealing in firearms--without the onerous demands on their personal freedom--licensing and reporting procedures--that are required of "home" businesses engaged in selling other items.

    You don't like, "Loophole"? Well, then, let's call it what it really is; the enabling of greedy, selfish fuckheads to sell unregistered and untracked weapons with no regard whatsoever for anyone else's safety.

    I'm good with that, although it's a lot to type. In the interest of brevity (something the long winded Greg Camp chides others about) I'll try to remember to call it the "GFTEOA*".

    * Gunzloonz' Freedom To Endanger Others Act.

  9. Since my name is being used in vain once again, I'll weigh in here. A loophole is one of those terms that gets used whenever someone doesn't like what a law allows. As such, it's a tiresome rhetorical device, but we know what's going on.


    I realize that you've lived in gun control states, but you do realize, don't you, that in most states in this country, there is no registration of firearms? Do you also realize that as a private citizen, if I want to sell a firearm to another private citizen, there is no way for me to run a background check--or, at least, without joining one of those on-line checking sites, presuming that they aren't scams? You've been living in Massachusetts and New York for too long.

  10. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. I don't care if you call it the "gun show loophole," or the "private sale loophole" or even the "law which allows private sales without a background check," everyone knows what we're talking about and only those with no good argument continually make a big deal about what we call it.

  11. Greg Camp:

    You're a fucking idiot.


    "if I want to sell a firearm to another private citizen, there is no way for me to run a background check--or, at least, without joining one of those on-line checking sites, presuming that they aren't scams?"

    indicates two idiotic conflations on your part.

    One is that I give the slightest fuck if it's a bit inconvenient for you and your dangerously indifferent gunzloonz friends to indulge in your fantasies.

    The second is that you, like so many other gunzloonz say, "Well, the shitty, deliberately sabotaged laws that we've managed to waterdown to the point of ineffectiveness via the NRA's lobbying efforts don't work--so let's get rid of all of the laws", as if the passage of those ineffective laws happened in a vacuum.

  12. Democommie,

    This is why there will be no deals with anyone like you. Compromise with you is impossible. You don't have any respect for my side. Fine with us. We'll fight you every step of the way.

  13. Greg Camp:

    What the hell leads you to think that I'm interested in negotiating with an idiot like you?

    You are on record as saying you will NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances, willingly surrender your gunz. It is good to know that and you can be sure that oneathem agencies of nannybooted jackthugs that are the stuff of your nightmares is recording all of your utterances for the upcoming show trials.

    Get a fucking life.

  14. You know I've been thinking about this idea of compromise.

    If both sides are equally right, compromise could work. But if one side is more right than the other, which is the case with the gun control side, then compromise is bullshit. It's more cheating and manipulating from the other side.