Mother Jones
Ever since George Zimmerman was charged in April 2012 with second-degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, a story that sparked a firestorm of debate over racial tensions, law enforcement, and >gun regulations has mostly faded from the headlines. Now it returns, with Zimmerman's trial opening on Monday in Sanford, Florida. The case hinges on some complex and controversial questions; below are several key aspects worth considering. Also see our collection of primary documents and videos from the case for additional background.
Does Zimmerman's story add up? A written statement and police video released last June, in which Zimmerman reenacts the deadly altercation for investigators at the scene, raised questions about Zimmerman's story in more ways than one. He seemed to suffer from some peculiar memory loss that night regarding a street in his neighborhood of many years, and his description of the confrontation did not jibe with a prior written statement that he'd given police. More details here.
Interesting that you follow the leftist media tricks of a young Trayvon picture instead of the recent pics of a thuggish Trayvon instead.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is Mike that this type of pictorial description trick is old and debunked now. Anyone that has been following this story knows better, which is most of the country on both sides of the issue have now seen, even from the leftist media, the true representation of Trayvon.
Really Mike? You should know better by now!
How could he not know whether he "fell backwards" or "stubbled forward" after getting punched in the face? String him up!
ReplyDeleteYeah I wanna see the pics of TM with all four of his bottom teeth in gold, pics from his cell phone of the underage girls I stupid stages of undress w/ the guns cash and drugs.....
ReplyDeleteAs I would expect from MoJo as they call themselves in the article, they seem to make light of politicians getting involved and leave things that could affect people coming to their view of what should happen.
ReplyDeleteFor example, they mention that some Nazi wannabes showed up to protect white people. Yet I didnt see any mention of the wanted poster circulated by the New Black Panther Party.
Most people are happy to let the judicial system work. And I have a fair amount of faith that being judges by a jury of his peers will work. It will be interesting to see what the result will be in the area of what happens when the jury returns a verdict. Will the people supporting the "losing" side accept the verdict returned? Will this possibly result in something akin to what happened after the Rodney King incident?
We'll see what happens in the trial. We don't know everything about this case so far, and it is plausible that either one could have started the fight.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I've been leaning more toward Zimmerman as time has gone on because of the shenanigans pulled by the prosecution. Dershowitz and others have pointed out the problems with the charging documents and other behaviors by the prosecution. There's also the prosecution's withholding of evidence, including holding on to the color photo of Zimmerman's bloody face for months, only turning over a grainy, degraded, black and white version of it that they also leaked to the press.
The withheld evidence doesn't fully exculpate Zimmerman (though the photo does support his story), but it does raise the question: if the prosecution could win this and knows it was a bad shoot, then why would they feel the need to do shoddy lawyering and suppress evidence.
I, to my shame, jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman was guilty of murder when the story first came out. And yes, Mikeb, I'm aware of my hypocrisy in doing that--like I said, I'm ashamed. I know better than that, and did it anyway.
DeleteNow I have no idea whether or not he's guilty. I just hope the trial manages, against all odds, to sort things out and come to right conclusion.
Kurt, are you serious about that?
DeleteT., when you say, "either one could have started the fight." don't you think the fact that one guy was walking down the block and the other was in his car, got out and pursued the first guy, might contradict that statement?
Kurt, are you serious about that?
DeleteYes. The early reports left so little room for doubt that it was murder, that I leapt straight to that conclusion. OK--that sounds as if I'm trying to pass the blame for my haste to condemn Zimmerman. That's not my intention--I, and no one else, am responsible for my actions.
Anyway, maybe it was murder, and maybe it was self-defense. I'm not sure we'll ever know for certain, even after a verdict is reached.
The tape from his call to the police contradicts a "pursuit". He is standing around for 90 seconds talking to the dispatcher about where he will meet the officer. He is not chasing anyone at that point. Have you listened to the whole tape, or just the part where he gets out of his car?
DeleteNo, Mike, it doesn't contradict anything. You've got the right to hop out of your car, with or without police permission, and as a person you don't recognize what they're doing in the neighborhood. That does not qualify as starting a fight, even if you walk after them a short way, yelling your questions. They can answer, or just keep going while shooting you the bird. Following someone a ways and accosting them as to why they're in your neighborhood does not count as starting a fight.
DeleteThe question is if Zimmerman started a fight by cornering Trayvon, trying to get hold of him, etc. or if Trayvon attacked him on his way back to his car as he says.
" I'm not sure we'll ever know for certain, even after a verdict is reached."
DeleteI knew I'd eventually find something Kurt said that I agree with.
I knew I'd eventually find something Kurt said that I agree with.
DeleteThat threw me into a panic for a minute, as I scrambled to cleanse myself of the moral stain of your agreement with me. I soon realized, though, that I need not have worried, since you clearly do not agree with me about the lack of certitude regarding Zimmerman's innocence or guilt.
You, after all, were ready to convict him the day you heard about the shooting, and have never wavered. You, indeed, are so certain of his guilt that when photos present compelling evidence that it was self-defense, you accuse the prosecution of having doctored them.
You still haven't explained why they would engage in such bizarre behavior.
This is exciting news. Now what really happened can come out in trial.
ReplyDeleteWhat really happened was George Zimmerman killed a teenager. The Florida AG decided to charge him with second degree murder.
Let's hope that's the conviction they get. We all abhor gun violence, don't we?
Kid. Convenience store. Relative around the block. Candy. Girlfriend. Normal stuff. No need to carry a gun or worry about being killed that one would logically suspect.
Resident of the neighborhood gets jumped and knocked to the ground, then beaten--need to have a gun.
DeleteI'll be glad when the evidence is finally before the public to clear up exactly what happened.
FJ, has a point. However badly the pro-gun folks have tarnished Trayvon Martin's image, he was walking down the street unarmed when Zimmerman got out of his car.
DeleteSoe getting out of his car is excuse enough to start beating the crap out of the man?
DeleteThere's something wrong with getting out of one's car? The evidence I've seen to date suggests that Zimmerman was returning to said vehicle, while Martin doubled back to confront him.
DeleteAnd then he started beating on the guy who got out of his car. He would not have got shot if he continued walking down the street. Let's look at the whole picture. Ted Bundy wasn't executed for going out on some dates.
DeleteSo? Fists and feet can be as lethal as guns and knives. Judging from the injuries we finally know Zimmerman sustained, it's pretty obvious that Martin was attempting to use lethal force.
DeleteIf Zimmerman started the fight, Trayvon was in the right to punch him in self defense, but was crossing into excessive force territory by slamming his head on the ground (wouldn't justify Zimmerman shooting him, but it still works against the whole "Trayvon was an angel" narrative).
Meanwhile, if Trayvon took such offense at being accosted that he decided to kick Zimmerman's ass and started the fight, eventually slamming Zimmerman's head on the ground, then he started the fight and brought potentially lethal force into it, making the shooting perfectly appropriate.
Yes, Trayvon was a teenager, and it's tragic when a teenager gets shot, and yes, there are plenty of details that can be used to amp up the pathos: he was carrying candy, he was unarmed, etc.
But there is the solid possibility that the skittles carrying cherub flew into a rage, started beating Zimmerman's head into the ground, and got plugged. Sad, tragic even, but on his own head if this is how it went down.