arma virumque cano (et alia)
Seen these before--definitely has the cool factor only beat by a reinforced concrete room, temperature and humidity controlled, and with a safe door.That being said, I wonder how secure this would be--it looks like a simple deadbolt, so it might be easy to crack with a crowbar. Also, if it's just wood, I question whether you could kick through it even. Kinda looks like trading absolute security for camoflage--legitimate strategy and pretty neat, but I question how well it would protect a theft victim from prosecution under some safe storage proposals.All that said, props to the wood worker--functional and nice looking.
"Kinda looks like trading absolute security for camoflage--legitimate strategy and pretty neat, but I question how well it would protect a theft victim from prosecution under some safe storage proposals." A good point. When Mike refers to safe storage, he means safe from theft, while it normally refers to storage to prevent minors from accessing firearms. Two very different levels of security.
This demonstrates the problem with Mike's ideas of blanket safe storage laws. This is quite good as an anti-theft storage solution, and Mike seems to agree judging by the tag. But it may not meet a technical definition because it's just a locked wooden case.
What "technical definition?"I like this method very much. It would deceive burglars being hidden like it is and it should keep the kiddies out too.
"It would deceive burglars being hidden like it is and it should keep the kiddies out too." Relying on something being hidden is not an acceptable technique for preventing access by children. Children watch literally everything you do.
A safe storage law like you want would require a definition of what forms of storage were acceptable. Depending on how a law is written, this might or might not qualify under some proposals. That's why we have repeatedly asked what would qualify as safe storage under your proposal and various others' proposals.
Mike, you want a law that says firearms must be safely stored against theft. That means the law would have to technically define what “safe storage” is. Is a wooden door with a dead bolt on a wooden frame strong enough for you (just like door to the house the burglar just pried open)? Oh, but this one is hidden. How do you technically define hidden? Laci once said hiding a gun from thieves is not acceptable because they know where all the hiding places are. I can’t see being lenient when you read a report where someone had their guns stolen and the owner said it was well hidden but the thief found it and then broke the case with a crowbar. No way.
You are the gun experts, you define safe storage.
Ok. People should be allowed to choose the storage solution that is right for them, because every situation is different.
Anon, most safe storage laws deal with preventing access to guns by children. Mike also refers to safe storage when he talks about theft prevention. Minnesota has such a law that uses reasonableness in its definition. This gives the parent freedom as to what is required, though he or she might have to defend it in court. In my opinion, hiding a firearm or placing it somewhere thought to be inaccessible isn't adequate since kids always seem to surprise you in the area of what you think they know or what they can do. And in this case, being surprised can have dire outcomes.
Thanks SS but you didn't answer the question, you didn't even give the details of the MN law, yet, went on to describe how reasonable it is. One State is not representative when talking about a national problem anyways.
Thanks TS but you did not answer the question. Not even a nice dodge.
I thought this one also had a hidden keypad which required a combination to be punched in. That's what would keep the kids out.
"Thanks SS but you didn't answer the question, you didn't even give the details of the MN law, yet, went on to describe how reasonable it is" I didn't say it was reasonable Anon, though it is. I said it uses reasonableness in its definition of safe storage. Even without safe storage laws in a particular state, there are many other charges available for a prosecutor to use if failing to secure a firearm causes harm. Mike has posted them here, felony child endangerment comes to mind as one example. "Subd. 2.Access to firearms. A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor who negligently stores or leaves a loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access, unless reasonable action is taken to secure the firearm against access by the child. Subd. 3.Limitations. Subdivision 2 does not apply to a child's access to firearms that was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry."
I said there is no definition that fits for everyone.
Mike, this won't keep a thief out IF the thief knows it's there. A crowbar would make short work of that. So, my question is, it hiding guns from thieves acceptable to you?
So SS, who is being coy and mysterious in his wording? You want it both ways and only now do you quote from the section.
Sorry TS, again, as I said you did not answer the question. If there is a law, if applies to everyone, so you are saying there should be no law. You are against any safe gun storage law. Is that so hard to say? Geeeeez.
TS, you're doing that tedious pain-in-the-ass thing again. A thief can open most gun safes with a crow bar. And no, hiding guns is not considered proper gun security against theft.
But, you said that using safes would stop gun thefts and that thieves wouldn't keep stealing the same number of guns by merely taking special tools with them and popping safes open.Now you say it's as easy as a crowbar.Which is it?
Simon, I really get sick and tired of you guys trying to catch me out, always looking for tiny contradictions or discrepancies.Do all or most burglars carry crow bars? No, of course not. That's why any kind of safe would confound most of them. Get it?"A thief can open most gun safes with a crow bar," IF HE HAS ONE.
That man has talent. Invite him to join the This Old House crew.