Within the next week, Arizona could become the first state with a large urban population to allow U.S. citizens 21 and older to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. Only Alaska and Vermont have similar allowances.
Senate Bill 1108, crafted by Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, passed in the House of Representatives on Thursday with a vote of 36-19 and no comments from either side.
The bill will go to the governor Monday, and Gov. Jan Brewer will have until the following Saturday to sign it, veto it, or do nothing and allow it to become law. The law would go into effect 90 days after the legislative session ends, which could happen within the next few weeks.
What's wrong with these people? They started with a good idea, that having a gun can be useful for self-defense, then they kept pushing and pushing until the so-called "right" goes beyond the realm of common sense. The gun apologists are quick to point out that Vermont and Alaska have this policy and they're not awash in gun violence. I'm not sure that's exactly true, but in this article it was made very clear there's a big difference.
Arizona could become the first state with a large urban population to allow U.S. citizens 21 and older to carry a concealed firearm without a permit.They mentioned "with a large urban population." They might have added, "with a large urban population in which there already is a lot of gun violence."
The training requirements to get the permit would change under the proposed law. John Thomas, lobbyist for the Arizona Chiefs of Police, said the new provisions don't require the training class to be a set number of hours or include any hands-on use of the weapon.
A background check would still be required to get a permit, as well as to buy a gun in most cases. Brewer this week signed another law that exempts guns made and kept in Arizona from federal regulation, including background checks.
No training requirements will be required. Way to go, Arizona. That one makes a lot of sense, huh? And even better is the doing away with the background check for guns made and kept in-state. I wish someone would tell us how that'll make the world a better place.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Alaska presents an opportunity to show how gunloons play with statistics. According to gunloons, AK--with virtually no gun laws, is a safe place with a low number of homicides.
ReplyDeleteThey point at Alaska and say 'look, AK only had 38 homicides last year!'
Of course, they neglect to mention that if one looks at Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 population--AK ranks second in the nation, ahead of such states as LA and NV.
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000
Breaking it down further, AK leads the nation in female homicides.
--JadeGold
Jadegold: “They point at Alaska and say 'look, AK only had 38 homicides last year!'
ReplyDeleteOf course, they neglect to mention that if one looks at Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 population--AK ranks second in the nation, ahead of such states as LA and NV.”
So you convert to rates per 100K, but conveniently slip in a broader measure than “homicides” by using “Firearm death rate” (including suicides, accidents, legitimate DGUs, police justifiable killings, etc..). Alaska has twice the suicide rate of the rest of the country. We know you like to think guns make you want to kill yourself (nothing to do with cold, isolation, long dark winters, depressed economy, etc…)- we’ve beat that topic to death in the “Suicides in Japan” thread. But why the spin when the topic was homicides? Alaska’s homicide rate for 2008 was 4.1 per 100K.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/akcrime.htm
I guess TS believes females wanted to be murdered because its cold, dark and isolated.
ReplyDeleteAnd isn't TS basically giving up the canard that guns save lives?
For a period in the 1990's, AK firearm homicide rate exceeded the auto death rate. Think about that--you had a greater chance of dying by gun in AK than dying in an auto accident.
I realize TS believes that suicides and accidents don't really count--but they do. We all get to pay for them.
And we all should stop pretending AK is some isolated village in the North Pole where everyone lives in an igloo--it's not. They have modern facilities like electricity, TV, the internets and the like.
--JadeGold
"Think about that--you had a greater chance of dying by gun in AK than dying in an auto accident."
ReplyDeleteYou also have a greater chance of being killed by exposure than by a gun or a car in Alaska.
You also have a better chance of being killed by an animal in Alaska than in the rest of the country. Statistics prove nothing.
I'm not a gun guy who has a problem with requiring a license and basic (as in a day or so) training to carry a loaded firearm for self defense in public -- though I obviously think issue should be mandatory and places where carry is not legal nearly non-existent.
ReplyDeleteBut as laws have changed in Alaska, the murder rate hasn't (i.e. it didn't spike up when 100% carry was enacted). Nor the suicide rate. Nothing really changed. And as laws got tighter in other places (D.C., chicago) neither did the murder rate get any better.
It's pretty clear that criminals in Phoenix are already carrying guns, and this won't affect them. it's pretty much done ... let's just wait and see, shall we? The citizens of Arizona have spoken, and that's what a democracy is all about.
Jadegold: “I guess TS believes females wanted to be murdered because its cold, dark and isolated.”
ReplyDelete“guessing” is your game all right. How did you come up with that?
My post was about how when gunloons mention homicides- you spin that into stats that includes suicides. Who is the one who “plays with statistics”?
Jadegold: “And isn't TS basically giving up the canard that guns save lives?”
You know I’ve never made the connection that guns cause suicide. That’s your “guess”. I don’t think this is about some race between murders/suicides and DGUs though, so I don’t try to play that game.
Jadegold: “Think about that--you had a greater chance of dying by gun in AK than dying in an auto accident.”
Also speaks to how little traffic Alaska has.
Jadegold: “I realize TS believes that suicides and accidents don't really count--but they do. We all get to pay for them.”
Do suicides by means other than a firearm “count” for you?
"And even better is the doing away with the background check for guns made and kept in-state. I wish someone would tell us how that'll make the world a better place."
ReplyDeleteIt's not supposed to make the world a better place. It's preemptive middle finger to any future federal legislation.
ecRed, Thanks for an honest answer. I like that "middle finger" explanation.
ReplyDeleteNon, now, Stephen, I've been severely reprimanded for saying that.
ReplyDelete"The citizens of Arizona have spoken, and that's what a democracy is all about."
I do agree with one thing you said. Let's wait and see. I predict over the next five years, Arizona will give us incontrovertible proof that gun control is needed.
MikeB: “Non, now, Stephen, I've been severely reprimanded for saying that.
ReplyDelete"The citizens of Arizona have spoken, and that's what a democracy is all about."
I’m with you on this one MikeB. This can easily go the other way. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
MikeB: “I predict over the next five years, Arizona will give us incontrovertible proof that gun control is needed.”
Why hasn’t the last five years been incontrovertible?
Arizona is a representative democracy; there's no question about that. That's how Arizona has set up its government.
ReplyDeleteBut this is not the 2nd amendment of the COTUS being argued, this is Arizona state law. The 2nd amendment isn't at issue here at all -- that's at another level. And whether the 2nd amendment should grant license free arms carry nationwide another issue.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
I like that quote, but I also like the quote from Churchill that goes something like "democracy is the worst form of government on Earth ... except when compared with all the other forms of government on the Earth."
The only alternative I know of is if you put me in charge of everything. I'm prepared to take such a position, and the title I prefer is "glorious supreme ruler of all the earth and the cosmos for life." I promise a gentle regime of true hope and change (and Mike B. would like my gun laws, because once I'm in total power I ain't sharing with anyone!) ;-)
But Mike B. ... when you say you expect "incontrovertible proof" (for gun control, I assume) you almost make me laugh. Do you seriously believe that? Do you think there are enough people primed and ready to murder at the drop of a hat that aren't ALREADY carrying guns with or without a license that this new law will make a difference in crime statistics? That suddenly a few thousand people are going to say, "not that I can carry without a license, I'm going to strap up and shoot the first guy who so much as sneers at me?" That, my friend, is true paranoia.
I think you should move back to the US and carry a gun for awhile. It doesn't increase your appetite for violence, and if anything it takes your angry reactions down a notch. Believe me ... the last thing in the world I want to do is face the legal and civil liability of having taken my weapon out of it's holster. And having a gun on you just reminds you of how serious that would be.
Stephen says, "But Mike B. ... when you say you expect "incontrovertible proof" (for gun control, I assume) you almost make me laugh. Do you seriously believe that? Do you think there are enough people primed and ready to murder at the drop of a hat that aren't ALREADY carrying guns with or without a license that this new law will make a difference in crime statistics?"
ReplyDeleteWhat I think is there will be undeniable increase in gun violence. That's all. I never said "blood in the streets" or "people are primed and ready to murder." A solid increase is what it'll take to convince reasonable people.
If you're still following this ...
ReplyDeleteWhat I think is there will be undeniable increase in gun violence. That's all. I never said "blood in the streets" or "people are primed and ready to murder." A solid increase is what it'll take to convince reasonable people.
I never used that rhetoric. But for this law to make a difference in the number of people killed or shot per year, it would have to in some manner affect people who don't currently carry guns. So I put this to you:
1. It won't affect who can own guns.
2. It won't affect who can stick a gun in their belt (you can do that without a CCW license, you just face a misdemeanor if you do).
So how will this have any affect? How many people do you think there are who can legally purchase a gun now (which means they can get a CCW license), and are determined to start killing people, but have chosen to wait for the misdemeanor charge for carrying illegally to be dropped before they start?
So how about a bet? If we're both still blogging in 2015, and using verifiable sources like the FBI UCR we can't find any increase in violence because of this law (i.e. an increase in the people with no prior record killing/shooting others) you must post favorably about non-licensed CCW for other states as we expand it. If there is a notable increase, I'll post against it.
Game on? Sounds like a safe bet from my side!
And non-licensed CCW is a safe bet for everyone!
Stephen, I'll take the bet. Actually I'm already planning on doing just that because the way things are going, the debate cannot stay this balanced for long. By 2015, one of us will have to acquiesce.
ReplyDeleteI predict over the next five years, Arizona will give us incontrovertible proof that gun control is needed.
ReplyDeleteAnd what objective facts do you base this prediction on?
Decades of gun control have given us incontrovertible proof that strict laws (even bans) DO NOT lower violent crime rates or result in any measureable increase in public safety.
Yet you and your ilk cling to the "DO IT AGAIN ONLY HARDER!!" approach.
thats the problem with this world. this nation decided to put God on hold and say "hey we got this, we can make it on our own". 1st and big mistake. for me being a christian is not something you do just because its something to do on sundays. its a lifestyle. i can admit i have my faults, i do slip up sometimes but i know that my faith in Christ keeps me going. these are tough times, thats clear. we live in a capitolist society. that means money hungry society. what, you think that God was playn when He said money is the root to evil. people say "you can't prove God is exist". 1st off why do we exist. why does the earth spin on its axis 24/7, 365 days of the year around the sun so perfect that were not to close to burn up, nor or we to far to freeze to death. explain why this earth just sits in space, not free falling not jumping around space saying wats up to the other planets. explain how were are all here. you think some huge explosion of gas formed us? i'll tell you wat, go throw some powder together and lets see wat happens. well y dont people want to believe. its simple. us as human beings do not want to submit to something far much greater then us. women dont want to submit to men. men dont want to submit to other men. its human nature. let me tell yall something. when you walk with God life is just so much better. not saying trials wont come. my family goes through things, were going through something right now. but when you put your faith in Christ, you dont worry about those things. you talk about having joy. the greatest joy is coming to know Christ and all that He has done and is going to do. thats where my joy comes from. not a ritual, not a religion, but a relationship with the One that created us. God Bless. I love all yall straight up
ReplyDeleteMathematical proof that gun control doesn't work:
ReplyDelete1. Gun control is a law.
2. Criminals don't obey the law.
3. Gun control doesn't work.
Any questions?