The Buffalo Police Department may be looking into using a rarely enforced law to help keep unused and unwanted guns from falling into the wrong hands.
Buffalo Police Commissioner Daniel Derenda recently said the department will be sending people to collect guns that once belonged to pistol permit holders who have died.
It's a plan that has some gun owners and 2nd Amendment advocates up in arms.
"The idea of the police confiscating them is repugnant not only to the 2nd Amendment but certainly the 5th and 14th Amendment, which don't permit deprivation of property without due process," said attorney Steve Cohen.
Cohen, an attorney at Hogan Willig who specializes in constitutional law, said there is a legal avenue for the estate to dispose of the weapons.
"There is a section in the penal law that says that the state has to dispose of the weapon within two weeks, maybe 15 days. The reality is, when somebody dies, the family can obtain, the state representative executor can obtain a certificate of non-destruction. They can turn these firearms into a police department and have somebody with an FFL, Federal Firearms License, a gun store, sell these weapons for the estate," said Cohen.
Buffalo Police Commissioner Daniel Derenda recently said the department will be sending people to collect guns that once belonged to pistol permit holders who have died.
It's a plan that has some gun owners and 2nd Amendment advocates up in arms.
"The idea of the police confiscating them is repugnant not only to the 2nd Amendment but certainly the 5th and 14th Amendment, which don't permit deprivation of property without due process," said attorney Steve Cohen.
Cohen, an attorney at Hogan Willig who specializes in constitutional law, said there is a legal avenue for the estate to dispose of the weapons.
"There is a section in the penal law that says that the state has to dispose of the weapon within two weeks, maybe 15 days. The reality is, when somebody dies, the family can obtain, the state representative executor can obtain a certificate of non-destruction. They can turn these firearms into a police department and have somebody with an FFL, Federal Firearms License, a gun store, sell these weapons for the estate," said Cohen.
"It's not an attempt to restrict anybody's gun rights or take property from people. It's just an attempt to ensure that the proper disposition occurs with these weapons," said Renaldo.
According to state law, the estate of a deceased person has 15 days to dispose of that person's firearms or surrender the firearms to a law enforcement agency.
As often happens, these situations could be easily defused if there had been some thought put into implementation. If the police chief in question had had a plan outlined that started with informing the relatives of their options and the time constraints, then gun rights advocates wouldn't have muvh to complain about.
ReplyDeleteHowever, no one has said anything like that, which makes it likely that they just show up asking for the guns, possibly after its too late to use any of the alternatives to surrender of the firearms.
"...then gun rights advocates wouldn't have muvh to complain about."
DeleteI seriously doubt that.
This isn't common sense. It's theft of estate property unless you're fast enough to apply for this certificate within the proper window, while your grief is still sharpest.
ReplyDeleteOne more reason to move out of New York to a state that doesn't outlaw, confiscate, or destroy your property without compensation.
It seems wise to me. Many of you gun nuts do not share your passion (fetish) with family members and many of you own scores of guns. Once you die, they're not being properly secured anymore, especially since you refuse to own safes for proper storage and resist all attempts to legislate that.
DeleteScores of guns are worth money. Even if the family isn't interested in the guns, I bet they are interested in the money.
DeleteYeah, that's why there's a grace period in which they can be disposed of properly. Grief and mourning doesn't prevent the execution of other legal proceedings regarding the inheritance - this would just be one more thing to take care of. Otherwise, the guns are confiscated.
DeleteAh yes, it's an act of their grace that they wait just over a fortnight before you forfeit valuable property. State limitations on probating a will is typically in units of years if there is a limit at all.
DeleteTS, There isn't an upper limit on how long it can take, but you're right that it usually takes about a year. Some stuff can be sold before that, but it takes a bit of time to start the ball rolling and get an executor established who is allowed to sell the belongings of the deceased legally.
DeleteMike,
Many don't share a love of guns with family members? And what is your basis for saying this? Because I've seen far more cases where the family wants the guns than where they don't. As for the rest of your comments, good job with the ad hominem attacks insinuating deviancy and accusing us of refusing to own safes--something there's a booming business in since so many of us want them.
These are guns we're talking about, not the other property that's usually involved in these cases. The custodian of the guns is no longer with us. Something must be done quickly.
DeleteWell Mike, any idea if there is portion of the law that allows a family member to get the guns back from the police after the proper hoops have been leapt through, therefor ensuring their safety? Or is the time constraints such that the 15 days is merely a formality before the guns are confiscated, never to be seen again?
DeleteI'm sure there is, TS. If another family member meets all the NY requirements for owning guns, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to take over ownership. All you're doing is stretching things to find fault with the law and thereby dismiss it entirely. But the fact is it serves a good purpose. How many of you guns nuts have no family, or none that's interested in taking on the responsibility of owning guns and ensuring their security?
DeleteThese are guns! Something must be done Now!!!!!
DeleteOh the timid heart of the vegetarian.
"I'm sure there is"
DeleteThey certainly aren't doing themselves any favors in regards to building trust when they do this. By not being up front with ALL of the options, they give an appearance of dishonesty.
"Buffalo Police, who have posted the policy on its Facebook page, omit mention of the two-year clause in which the department would store the firearms in question, only mentioning the 15-day turn over requirement. It does advise the transfer can occur to a licensed gun dealer, another pistol permit holder or police.
City code forbids disposing of a firearm unless it is to a gunsmith or licensed firearms dealer or as part of a testamentary bequest such as directed by a will. However, these guns can be voluntarily surrendered."
http://www.guns.com/2014/11/17/gun-rights-advocates-outraged-at-ghoulish-buffalo-gun-grab/
"How many of you guns nuts have no family, or none that's interested in taking on the responsibility of owning guns and ensuring their security? "
DeleteVery damn little! None that I know of. Every one of the "gun nuts" I know have a large family and all of them are "gun nuts" as well.
"None that I know of. Every one of the "gun nuts" I know have a large family and all of them are "gun nuts" as well."
DeleteNONE? EVERY ONE? ALL of them are gun nuts as well?
I don't believe you. You don't know a single exception to what you just wrote?
Personally, I have never met a "gun nut," and strongly suspect that their existence is a myth, like Sasquatch or Nessie, but not quite as plausible.
DeleteThe last one to know he is a gun nut, is a gun nut.
DeleteThe law is clear, as usual the implementation is so bad people get upset. Typical for government procedures.
ReplyDeleteThe solution is simple. Repeal the noxious licensing and registration requirements, restoring firearm ownership to the none-of-the-government's-damned-business status enjoyed by the residents of free states, and all this egregious bullshit is stopped dead.
ReplyDeleteTypical response from a criminal thinker who could care less about the 30,000 people a year dying from gun shot death thousands of which could be avoided.
DeleteYou repeat that 30,000 bullshit line so often that means about as much as "common sense" nowadays. In other words, no meaning at all.
DeleteBecause that is the number no matter how much you call it a lie.
DeleteNext lie....
Next lie?? LOLs Your the one telling them, lets hear some more!
DeleteIf 30,000 is a lie what is your number? That number is backed by multiple, reputable research groups. Waiting for your answer liar. Put up, or shut up.
Delete"You don't know a single exception to what you just wrote?"
ReplyDeleteUmmm,,,,,,, Nope. Would you like more info? You probably wouldn't believe that either, nor would I care. What you believe and what is are two different things.