arma virumque cano (et alia)
I see they're still using the same "study" from Everytown which has been discredited by conservative media stalwarts like CNN and Politifact.
SS's dishonest survey complaint again. Last week in 24 hours he praised a Gallop survey that concluded in a pro gun manner, then in just a day complained that a Gallop survey was false when it concluded in an anti gun manner. It's not the group surveying for this dishonest gun loon, it's the conclusion of the survey. Any survey concluding in an anti gun manner, is discredited by this partisan gun loon.
Anon, this is supposed to be a report. Not a poll or a survey. For example, on Nov. 3rd of this year, they list a shooting at Delaware State University. Look up a news report and you'll find that the shooting occured in the parking lot of an off campus residence hall, and the police are calling it random. Stuff like that is what resulted in even CNN and Politifact throwing them under the bus. By the way, welcome back. You should try using data or logic to support your beliefs on postings. Works much better than name calling. I dont know how much I'll be able to hang out here this weekend because I have my trained killer training this weekend.
You should try not being a consistent liar, you might get more respect. As it is I will treat you like the liar you are. Am I supposed to respect the fact that you train killers? Sorry, you get no respect at all from me.
I wouldn't say the point of the study was discredited. The qualifications for counting things as school shootings was questioned, but what would that leave us with if we'd used a stricter criterion? The point would be the same.
But when they fudge the numbers badly enough that the media that usually supports them has to call BS, then that becomes the main point of the debate and not what they were hoping to convey. And considering that they had how many months went by since CNN and Politifact called their study inaccurate, they don't seem to have done anything to fix it. Though that would require them to accept that they made a mistake. At least they can still point to the Violence Policy Center and claim that at least they aren't as bad as the VPC....yet.
"Am I supposed to respect the fact that you train killers?" It isn't quite as glamorous as you think Anon. Mike, and anyone else who has served knows quite well how mundane a training day can be when you aren't in the field.
Your diversion doesn't change the hypocrisy of your data source lie. You are the one who went out of your way to boast about your training killers talent. Now back to more of your lies.
Actually, I wasn't boasting. Was just explaining that I might not be able to reply as quickly since you have at times interpreted the delay as some sort of victory. Well Anon, how is my exposing the inaccuracy of the events listed hypocrisy or a lie? This isn't a poll.
The only time I said anything about your reply time is when you said you were gone for a while and could not respond. Understandable, except at that same time you posted multiple comments. So you were lying again, as I have proven many times. Next lie SS........
You're right, ss, the focus becomes the method of counting rather than the disgraceful frequency of school shootings. But who's fault is that, the ones who counted everything and anything or the ones like you who focus on that instead of the point? If it were up to me I'd count only the most clear and obvious cases and the point would be the same and you guys would have a harder time diverting attention away from it. But, I know how inventive and ingenious you can be, I'm sure you'd find a way.
But who's fault is that, the ones who counted everything and anything or the ones like you who focus on that instead of the point?So are you arguing that the "honorable" thing for SSG and other gun rights advocates to do is simply allow the vastly inflated, agenda-driven counts to go unchallenged? That if we point out the massive exaggeration, we're "diverting attention away from" whatever "point" you think you're making, so therefore we should just shut the hell up and take it?Up yours, Mikeb.
"But who's fault is that, the ones who counted everything and anything or the ones like you who focus on that instead of the point?" Mike, how is this any different than you your finding fault in the studies regarding defensive gun uses? You often say that you disagree with what constitutes a "proper" defensive gun use.
So tell us SS, how would you stop these school shootings?
Easy Anon, as has been mentioned in several FBI studies, the most important thing is to shorten the response time in order to stop the assailant.
Kurt, I didn't say the over-counting should be ignored, just that you shouldn't make it the focus of the discussion.ss, the over-counting of DGUs is so great as to render the entire argument false. Not so with this. Cut the number of school shootings down and you still have too many of them.
Kurt, I didn't say the over-counting should be ignored, just that you shouldn't make it the focus of the discussion.So how much can be said about the mendacity of various pro-"gun control" arguments, before we're accused of "mak[ing[ it the focus of the discussion"? You called me "a master at diversion" for my very first mention of Southern Beale's fantasy (and by extension, yours) of Jon Holzwarth being a "prominent 2nd Amendment 'gun rights' advocate."
Now all you have to do SS is to get the Republicans to vote the money to meet that standard, because obviously we are not stopping these killings. .
"Now all you have to do SS is to get the Republicans to vote the money to meet that standard, because obviously we are not stopping these killings" Anon, these decisions are made at the school district level and likely not a DFL/GOP matter at that level. And at that level, that involving parents, things get really weird. I recall one of Mike's posts where parents were getting the vapors because the police department wanted to store patrol rifles in a locked room in case such an event occurred.
"So how much can be said about the mendacity of various pro-"gun control" arguments, before we're accused of "mak[ing[ it the focus of the discussion"?"You are the master, Kurt. You made the focus of that other discussion the word "prominent." You did that with several comments focused ONLY on that. In this discussion you did the same thing about the over-counting of the number of school shootings.
You are the master, Kurt.Thanks, but I seek "mastery" over no one but myself.You did that with several comments . . . What do you mean "several comments"? You started bitching about my "diversion" after one comment--which would probably have been my last on that point, had you not made the choice, on your own, to continue that discussion.
Oh please SS, now you are saying politics don't enter local school decisions? Wow you are dumber than a rock.
"Oh please SS, now you are saying politics don't enter local school decisions?" As I often have to say, didn't say that Anon. I said that its not as simple at that level as a stereotypical two party disagreement. Ever actually gone to a school board meeting? Especially when something being addressed that brings out strong feelings? I merely said you were oversimplifying the dynamics of school district politics.
"What do you mean "several comments"? "Several. Do you speak English mother fucker?
I speak English rather well, Mr. Manners. Perhaps it is you who are having some English comprehension problems. Let's try again:You started bitching about my "diversion" after one comment . . . Just so we're clear here--you are aware that one is less than "several," right? And have you now managed to wrap your mind around the concept that you started whining about my pointing out Holzwarth's lack of "prominence" before my second comment about it, and that therefore, I was chastised for pointing out the mendacity of that post once?
All right, I'll lay it out for you, Kurt, since you insist on making every discussion as difficult as possible. When you diverted the discussion, in these two cases, I pointed that out to you in a vain attempt to bring it back on topic. You followed those attempts with additional comments on the diverted tangent, always avoiding the original topic.When I said you made several comments, I did not say several comments in a row or several comments before I made any. I said SEVERAL COMMENTS. Is that clear enough for you, you lying, pretending, phony?
Can you possibly be this obtuse? Even for you, it beggars belief.In this discussion, I responded to your chastisement of SSG for "focus[ing] on [the blatant over-count] instead of 'the point.'" My response was to ask if gun rights advocates should simply let "gun control" advocates make up whatever lying bullshit they want, without challenge.You generously (if grudgingly) allowed that we could bring it up, "just that [we] shouldn't make it the focus of the discussion."I then asked the logical follow-up question: "So how much can be said 'about the mendacity of various pro-'gun control" arguments, before we're accused of 'mak[ing[ it the focus of the discussion'?" and pointed out that you called me a "master of diversion" for mentioning once that Holzwarth's "prominence" was a fantasy being pushed by Southern Beale and you.In other words, you start whining at the very first "diversion" (your term for the observation that your side is selling bullshit).Is that clear enough for you?You still have precisely zero evidence of my being a "lying, pretending, phony." I predict that this reality will never, ever change.
"these decisions are made at the school district level and likely not a DFL/GOP matter at that level."I only go by what you say.
So if drug dealers shoot each other in the vicinity of a school, it counts as a school shooting? Laughable. -Black Gun Owner
Precisely, BGO.Of course, when guns are successfully used defensively in the vicinity of a school, we mustn't call that a school DGU.
Out of the "nearly 100," how many do you think were like that, 10, even 50? The point would be the same. TOO FUCKING MANY.
Of course you gun loons think it's just fine to have so many school shootings, since you say nothing about that number the headline points out.
Well Politifact has weighed in yet again in regards to the Everytown school shooting list. Apparently, Everytown made the following statement in regards to its study,"Georgia has had 12 school shootings in the two years since the mass killing at Sandy Hook Elementary School, more than any other state. " So they took a closer look. And the result is pretty much what they found last time. Mostly false."Experts warned about the confusion of putting those kinds of attacks – and two other shootings during school hours or school events following confrontations – in with other incidents."The question is whether the entire school or campus is endangered by the episode. The answer is most of these cases is no," said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston and author of the book, "Violence and Security on Campus: From preschool through college."But without knowing that, the report could drive anxiety and fear amid parents and students when schools are actually among the safest places for children to be, Fox said.""In the end, there is value in the findings but significant context missing from its overall conclusion.We rate the claim Mostly False."http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2014/dec/19/everytown-gun-safety/deeper-look-claim-georgia-leads-nation-school-shoo/