The woman and her family traveled to Columbus earlier this week from Ironton to attend the All-American Quarter Horse Association. They were staying at the Continent Inn in North Columbus on Wednesday night when a man armed with a gun barged into their hotel room and demanded money.
As the family members were extracting money and jewellry to give the thief, the 70-year-old mother pulled out a gun and shot the robber. To me this is one of the cleanest DGUs I've read about. I applaud that woman for her courage and for her aim.
I do have a couple questions though. In Ohio is it legal to carry a gun in one's purse? Are there no requirements for doing so? Isn't that like carrying a concealed weapon which often requires a permit?
Why does the story say she saved them from being murdered? Is the fact that the robber aimed a gun at them enough to express it like that? Isn't that an exaggeration? Isn't it true that we have no way of knowing if she saved them from being murdered or from just being robbed? And if that's the case, isn't it a shame to kill someone for attempted robbery?
What do you think? Do you see a dillemma in this level of response to armed robbery?
Please leave a comment.
Ohio is a shall issue state.
ReplyDeleteYou'd know that if you did one scrap of research before your post your drivel.
Dear kaveman Mr. smart aleck, I know Ohio is one of the lenient (shall issue) states, but does that mean anyone can just pop a gun in their purse? Isn't there some kind of licensing even in these lax states and shouldn't that have been mentioned in the article? I mean, my inquiring mind whould like to know.
ReplyDeleteThe gig is up, MikeB.
ReplyDeleteNow I know for sure that you are actually pro-2A and have taken on a false persona in order to make the antis look like total retards.
Well played.
Rule # 2 - Never let the muzzle of a gun point at anything you do not want to destroy or kill.
ReplyDeleteThat makes it pretty obvious that if you point a gun at someone, your intention is to destroy or kill them. And the person you point it at is justified in shooting you.
As for carrying a gun in a purse, a lot of old ladies do that, with or without a license. It's common knowledge in some parts of the country that you don't mess with old women specifically for that reason.
Yes, you do need a concealed handgun license to carry a firearm in a purse in public. In your hotel room, you do not need a license.
ReplyDeleteThis is as good of a deterent from robbery as any. It is simple, if you pull a deadly weapon on someone, you may get dead. Big boys rules.
Whether it was legal for her to carry concealed in her purse or not is irrelevant. Ohio allows you to have a loaded firearm in your home (which unless the Hotel forbids it and is backed up by state law, the hotel room counts as her abode for the night).
ReplyDeleteYou're right Mikeb, they don't know the intent of the robber, so what should the law abiding do 1) Err on the side of the robber and assume it is just a robbery. Consequence: If it is not a robbery they could be dead. Or 2) Err on the side of their safety and shoot the robber. Consequence: They (the law abiding are alive) and the robber (the criminal) is dead. And no it is no shame to kill someone over attempted robbery. The family did not choose to get robbed. They weren't even in some dark alley taking a shortcut home. Your sympathy for the criminal is astounding.
When you bring up that people carrying openly can constitute a threat, how can you possibly argue that a lethal firearm in the hands of a robber is not a threat of death? If criminals don't want to get shot by law abiding grandmas, then how about you leave them alone. If criminals would keep their acts targeted towards other criminals, then we wouldn't have to deal with your moral dilemmas. Besides, every state that allows you to defend yourself with a firearm sets the standard of you believing that your life or another's is in danger. You don't have to consider the mind the offender. It is immaterial. What you can consider are his words ("demanding money" with an implied "or else") and his actions (barging into the room and holding an object which when used against a human can be lethal).
So, if the robber had have knocked on the door and had a handful of wet spaghetti which he waved while asking to borrow some change, then if the story said that the Grannie saved them from being murdered you would have an exaggeration.
Do you purposely take a totally indefensible position?
MikeB,
ReplyDeleteHow was the family to know that he only wanted to rob them?
Did he announce it?
Were the supposed to read his mind?
An arrest warrant was issued in August for Wayne M. Winston, 25, because he moved out of state without permission while on probation, said Jacqueline Lapine, a spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Corrections.
The probation came after a December 2008 arrest in St. Louis County for first-degree tampering with a vehicle, a felony.
Winston had just been released from prison in September 2008 after serving seven years for crimes that included second-degree burglary, stealing a firearm, possession with intent to distribute a controlled substance and three counts of stealing a motor vehicle, Lapine said.
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/10/24/CASTLE.ART_ART_10-24-09_A1_C4FFD2G.html?sid=101
Looks like he was constantly increasing in the types of crimes he committed.
Yet you want people to "trust" criminals and let them have their way, why?
How did they know he wasn't going to kill them after getting the money?
Doesn't sound like he made any attempt to hide his identity.
You guys are right. It would be too risky to err on the side of the robber thinking his intention is only to rob. But that's what I call a terrible dilemma. The shooter in this story said it just right. She's happy she saved her family but sad that another family lost their son. Don't forget I said, "I applaud that woman."
ReplyDeleteFWM, If Ohio does not require a license to have a gun at home, or in a hotel room in this case but does when you're outside, how do you get the gun home from the gun shop or when going to and from the range?
The story (as most do) is missing a lot of details and just provides the basics. Maybe she HAD a permit? Maybe she brought the gun in from a lockbox in the car? Maybe she was carrying illegally without knowing it...she IS 70 and grew up in a time where we didn't have the myriad of gun laws we do today...maybe she just didn't keep up.
ReplyDelete"Why does the story say she saved them from being murdered?" In reading the article, I don't see it say that anywhere. It's possible they revised it, but it essentially currently says 'may have saved the lives of several family members'.
It's was a horrible situation, and it's fortunate that it turned out with the family being safe. I hope none of us ever has to face anything like that, but if you do, I hope that you have some option besides relying on the whims of a person who has already demonstrated a willingness to threaten violence and commit crimes.
Ohio is one of the 40 most lenient states in regards to issuing carry licenses. We require only objective criteria like classroom training, proof of competency, and a clean criminal record, and not things like political contributions.
ReplyDeleteFWM, If Ohio does not require a license to have a gun at home, or in a hotel room in this case but does when you're outside, how do you get the gun home from the gun shop or when going to and from the range?
The license is for carrying concealed. Open carry (except in a car) or carrying cased and separate from the ammo is legal as long as you are legal to own a gun.
isn't it a shame to kill someone for attempted robbery?
Yes. It is a shame that the robber made the woman choose between risking her family and taking a life.
"FWM, If Ohio does not require a license to have a gun at home, or in a hotel room in this case but does when you're outside, how do you get the gun home from the gun shop or when going to and from the range?"
ReplyDeleteMy God man, do some fucking reasearch before you post!!!!!!!!!!!!
A Concealed Carry Weapons permit deals with, wait for it, a concealed gun when out and about.
Transporting a firearm in your vehicle does have some gray areas but as long as it is not "readily accessable" or it is readily visible you do not need a CCW permit to transport a firearm.
Those with a CCW permit may have it hidden from view and readily accessable in their vehicle.
I've actually read the CCW laws, you obviously have not.
MikeB Said:
ReplyDelete"FWM, If Ohio does not require a license to have a gun at home, or in a hotel room in this case but does when you're outside, how do you get the gun home from the gun shop or when going to and from the range?"
Sevesteen covered this for me already but just to add:
In Ohio, keeping and bearing arms is protected by the Ohio and U.S. Constitutions. The license is for carrying concealed only and for handguns only.
Reputo asked, "When you bring up that people carrying openly can constitute a threat, how can you possibly argue that a lethal firearm in the hands of a robber is not a threat of death?"
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't think I said open carry people constitute a threat. I may have said I understand how non gun owners can feel threatened by them, that's a little different. And about the criminal who points a gun at someone in a robbery, you yourself said I was right that you cannot read his mind.
Overall I like what this woman did, especially since she expressed sadness over the victim-criminal's death.
The Columbus Dispatch is reporting that the woman did have a concealed handgun license and is from Southern Ohio. Maybe she's one of my neighbours.
ReplyDeleteMikey sez:
ReplyDeleteFWM, If Ohio does not require a license to have a gun at home, or in a hotel room in this case but does when you're outside, how do you get the gun home from the gun shop or when going to and from the range?
I'm not around much, since I have a couple of dogs I can kick around when I need to vent, so I would ask all of you to please keep this quote handy and post it on every thread just to show any lurkers just how completely out of touch mikey is with reality and the facts when it comes to guns and gun laws.
The fact he even posted it without realizing how clueless it shows him to be alone shows just how clueless he is.
And yes, I do agree with kaveman that mikey is really a pro-2a blogger posting as a "moby".
Tom, Thanks for stopping by with your analysis.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is I'm not quite as clueless as you say, but I enjoyed your exaggerated spin of my ignorance.
Please notice that kaveman said, "Transporting a firearm in your vehicle does have some gray areas."
You see, that was the kind of discussion I had in mind with the question you pointed out. Others answered it seriously too.
Well, I don't think I said open carry people constitute a threat
ReplyDeleteMike W., You can ridicule all you want, but I think Becky has a very valid point. Many people are probably frightened by the very sight of firearms.
And what was it that Becky said?
Is there not one place people can go and expect to be free from the threat and negative emotional impact of seeing guns?