Colleges would lose the right to prohibit concealed weapons on campus under a proposed bill that was blasted by university officials at a House committee hearing in Lansing on Tuesday.We've certainly discussed this one before. I admit I was somewhat persuaded by the pro-gun arguments. It makes sense to me that the Brady claims of wild frat parties by armed students is not realistic. I agree that most college students who have concealed carry permits would be older and more responsible. Yet, I still lean towards caution and the gun control argument still appeals to me.Universities and colleges are exempt from a state law that prohibits local governments from regulating firearms. The bill would extend that prohibition to institutions of higher learning.
The article mentions the problem of mixing young people, alcohol and weapons, but it doesn't make clear the real problem is that we cannot be sure of the folks who have concealed carry permits. I've often referred back to my Famous 10% to argue this, but recently there have been reports about how poorly the system is managed which determines who gets a permit.
In support of the proposed law, there is this:
I don't know. I think I'd rather take my chances on the criminals rather than have to worry about Peter Howard and all the other concealed carry guys AND the criminals.Second-year Wayne State University medical student Peter Howard told the committee he should be able to carry a concealed weapon on campus. He arrives at school early in the morning, and doesn't leave until late at night.
"I take precautions to walk in lighted areas, (but) a close friend of mine got robbed at gunpoint last year," Howard said. "I'm not living in fear, but it's something I'd like to take precaution with."
What's your opinion? Isn't it interesting that Mr. Howard was quoted as having said "I'm not living in fear, but..." Do the folks who carry guns sometimes get a little defensive about this "fear" business? I know whenever I bring it up, it rouses everything from outright denial to insulting counterattacks. What's your opinion? Is it a reasonable fear to worry about getting mugged on college campuses in Michigan? Is it a reasonable response to want to be armed? What then, a shootout, a gun battle? Is that the answer?
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
"I don't know. I think I'd rather take my chances on the criminals rather than have to worry about Peter Howard and all the other concealed carry guys AND the criminals."
ReplyDeleteWell you take your chances with criminals every day anyway, you must be used to it.
MikeB,
ReplyDeleteYou have auto insurance, right?
Are you living in fear of a crash every day?
You have medical insurance, right?
Are you living in fear of catching a disease or developing a medical condition?
On the other hand....why did you have illegally and legally owned firearms?
Were you living in fear then?
"Colleges would lose the right to prohibit concealed weapons on campus..."
ReplyDeleteColleges have no rights to lose in the first place.
People have rights, institutions do not.
Criminals attack college students because they know they are not armed. Anyone can argue gun control all they want to but no one can argue that a criminal would rather attack an armed victim than an unarmed one.
ReplyDeleteCriminals are like those animal rights morons. They will attack old ladies wearing fur or children in line for the circus but you never, ever see animal rights activists going after bikers wearing leather. I wonder why that is?
I did a post concerning what FWM brings up...
ReplyDeleteCats vs Dogs
When I go grocery shopping, I look for the best value for my money. Why would I pay extra for the sweaty butcher to cut my top sirloin into cube steak so I can make chili?
Well, I don’t.
I buy the steaks and cut them myself with my assault blade which I spray slice from the hip.
Minimal invested = increased value.
That’s because I’m a “higher animal” that can think things through; I can rationalize, I can plan ahead, I can make decisions now that will benefit me in the future. Not like those “lower animals”.
Hmmm…
A lioness, looking down from a low ridge will actually pick out and target the scrawny impala with a gimpy leg rather than the one prancing about with the most meat.
Why would a top predator target the weak and crippled rather than the front of the pack?
Minimal investment = increased value.
That “inferior animal” is you and I at the grocery store. She’s smart enough to know that the risk is too great to target those who can not only fight back, but quite possibly win with one well placed hoof. She employees very advanced tactics, really. Separate her target from the herd, get it alone, then attack.
Which leads to a question I hope you will consider.
Why do cats clean themselves while dogs do not?
Is it a reasonable fear to worry about getting mugged on college campuses in Michigan? Is it a reasonable response to want to be armed? What then, a shootout, a gun battle? Is that the answer?
ReplyDeleteConsidering the level of crime on most college campuses it's absolutely a reasonable response.
Shootouts? Gun Battles? Where? in your mind MikeB? In the huge majority of defensive gun uses the gun isn't even fired.
Do you lock your doors at night? Why? Are you living in fear? Do you have health insurance? Why? Living in fear of getting sick?
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/10/20/michigan-considering-campus-carry/#comments
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you read Pete's comment here about how MSU already doesn't forbid campus carry. There are a bunch of other private colleges that don't forbid legal carry. And of course Utah passed campus carry.
Care to explain how this could still be such an irrational law when there is nothing besides wild speculation and fearmongering on your side of the argument?
"A lioness, looking down from a low ridge will actually pick out and target the scrawny impala with a gimpy leg rather than the one prancing about with the most meat."
ReplyDeleteAnd at 6ft. 150 and a limp I am that scrawny impala.
MikeB - to expound on Weer'ds comment, many states do not specifically prohibit carry on college campuses.
ReplyDeleteI could lawfully open carry on University of Delaware's campus right now (or conceal if I had my DE CCDW permit)
Would doing so be against University policy? Absolutely, but what do I care if I'm not a student? If I were a student and had a permit to conceal I can't say I wouldn't violate school policy.
What makes a college campus a "special place" where people with carry permits who carry elsewhere in the state should be prohibited from carrying their firearm?
I don't think he's going to touch this one either.
ReplyDeleteStill think anti-gunners can present factual arguments?
Another issue that isn't present in the article but is surprisingly relevant is the fact that the quote from the medical student is from Wayne State University, which is an urban campus sprawling amongst the worst parts of downtown Detroit. You don't have to be compensating for a small appendage in order to have some desire to be able to protect yourself there at night. Here are the stats for campus crime at WSU through August 2009: http://www.police.wayne.edu/crime_stats.php I don't think these are typical numbers for an enclave-like college campus, and may give some credence to the campus carry philosophy. Also, these are only the reported crimes, and it can be generally agreed that robberies and larcenies are under-reported, especially in Detroit where it is so prevalent.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, many students commute from areas that are not "campus" proper, where concealed carry is legal, but have no place to put their weapon prior to coming to campus. Leaving anything in a vehicle is not responsible, because of the high rate of larcenies.
Just my 2 cents as a Detroiter.
Thanks, Rob. Those are good points.
ReplyDelete