Sunday, May 8, 2011

Crime and Gun Violence: Them.....and Us/ U.S.

We have a lot of claims about the relative amount of crime in places that have stricter gun laws.  I found this item this morning on the BBC web site:

Man shot in the head and leg in Bromley-by-Bow

Officers at the scene in Devons Road The victim was shot in the head and leg
A man has been shot in the head and leg in east London.
The victim, who is in his 40s, was found by a member of the public in Devons Road in Bromley-by-Bow.
Police were alerted about the shooting at about 2220 BST on Friday. The man was taken to hospital by air ambulance and is said to be in a critical condition.
The Metropolitan Police said no arrests have so far been made in connection with the inquiry.
So, I became curious about the assertions regarding gun violence in London, one of the largest cities in the world, and the assertion that other crimes of violence were increasing.  Gun and knife violence were particularly mentioned as DECLINING.

I didn't find any handy stats in a casual peruse for 2011; it might be a bit soon for those to have been tabulated and released, but I'll keep looking.  These were released in 2010 for the preceding year:
Gun crime increased dramatically in London last year even though the total number of offences fell, new figures revealed today. Violent attacks were also up.
Senior officers said there were “grave concerns” over the rises.
The number of offences involving guns — which also includes cases where criminals claimed to be armed — soared by 49 per cent to 3,306 cases, up from 2,224 in 2008.
While many involved air guns or even fake or imitation weapons, senior detectives have told the Standard there was a worrying rise in the number of gangland shootings.
Overall crime in the capital in 2009 was at its lowest level for 10 years, with significant falls in youth violence and knife attacks.
But gangsters engaged in drug and turf wars are increasingly using firearms to settle scores, and often only the skill of paramedics prevented shootings becoming murders.
The bold emphasis added to the quotes above and below is mine.  So, while there has been some areas of increase, overall crime is down, not up.  For those areas that have increased, there appears to have been steps taken to address the increases.  As much as we would all like there to be no crime, I think if we agree that people are more important than property, then we have to posit that these are overall, improvements to the crime problems. The article continued:
Commander Maxine de Brunner said: “Overall, crime continues to fall, which is great news for London.
“In particular, falls in homicide, youth violence and knife crime represent continuing success in tackling these offences. However, the Met is not complacent. We continue to tackle those challenges head-on.”
The number of youth violence cases fell by 3.5 per cent to a total of 20,272, meaning there were 725 fewer victims last year.
Knife crime, which claimed the lives of 10 teenagers, fell 7.9 per cent — a drop of 1,037 offences.
London's murder rate also fell to its lowest rate in recent history — with 130 homicides, compared with 155 in 2008.
The number of teenage murders was halved from a record total of 30 in 2008 to 15 last year.

Cases of homophobic crime rose by 27 per cent and race crime was up by seven per cent.
The total number of crimes in London fell by more than two per cent to 832,439 offences, down from 851,721 offences in 2008.
The Met said there were 20,000 fewer victims of crime last year than 2008.


  1. London,
    population 7,000,000
    total crimes 832,439

    Divide by 70 for crime per 100,000
    for 11,763.

    US Population 2007 = 301,621,157
    US total crime violent & property 2007 / 1,408,337 + 9,843,481 =11,251,818

    Divide by 3016 to get total crime per 100,000 for 3730.

    and just for funzies lets go to one of the states that Mikeyb is always deriding Flordia....

    Population : 18,251,243
    Total crime : 746,347
    divide by 182.51
    For crime per 100,000 of 4,089

    Keep you criminal shithole sweetcheeks..... the only reason that crime fell is there is nowhere else for it to go....

  2. Gee, Anon-NumbAss, I wonder if the numbers THEY use to calculate their crime rates are the same ones you use?

    I rather doubt it; given how large the extended metropolitan area of London is, where one draws those boundaries can be a good way to play games with statistics.

    So, unless you can persuade me that the numbers you used were for theexact same area the the numbers I provided came frmo - which is unlikely given other similar comparisons that differ significantly from yours - no way do I accept your number crunching.

  3. Doggone said,

    The total number of crimes in London fell by more than two per cent to 832,439 offenses, down from 851,721 in 2008.

    I used your numbers, I did not pull them from anywhere else.... or leave out important parts of the article....unlike you.....

    from the same article
    Gun crime increased dramatically in London last year even though the total number of offenses fell, new figures revealed today. Violent attacks were also up.

    so were the MET's numbers from a smaller area, lower population..... that is much worse for the London's crime rate....

    by the way I went to the MET's crime site and it is for the entire city of london....

    Population of London

    London comprises the City of London, and the 32 boroughs, of which 13 are in Inner London and 19 are in Outer London.

    It is a growing city spreading out and 'swallowing' many villages and towns in the south east of England.

    Because of this, there are many conflicting definitions of London and Greater London and the population of London varies accordingly.

    London, the capital of England and the UK, occupies over 620 square miles and is the most populous city in the European Union, with over 7 million residents.

    London’s population is heavily concentrated (at about 4,539 people per sq km/11,568 per sq mi)

    The population in 2005 was thought to have been about 7,518,000.

    population 7,518,000
    total crimes 832,439

    Divide by 75.18 for crime per 100,000 of 11,072.

    wow, you sure showed me....

    London, is three times the shit-hole that the US is in total crime metrics....

  4. Yeah, total crime includes pick-pocketing when it suits the gun rights crowd.

    You post is a great one.

  5. I pulled total reported crime from all three sources, great red herring there MikeyB, great job staying on topic.

    London's 'total' reported crime is almost three times the 'total' reported crime in the US or Flordia.

    Violent attacks were also up in the UK, why is that, they have no guns.....

  6. It's not a red herring when I point out where you're wrong. Total reported crime is bullshit and you know it. The reason is the UK has different definitions than we do. You can cherry pick the data that supports your twisted agenda all day long. That doesn't prove anything except how tenacious you are.