Now, let me guess. I know the contentious, never-give-an-inch gun guys will have a problem with this. What could it be?“When you have children, when you have firearms in the house, I think you just need to exercise common sense,” said Knox County Sheriff David Barber.Many sheriff's offices, including the Knox County Sheriff’s Office offer cable-type gun locks for free to anyone who wants them.Johnstown police Lt. Josh Boudinot said they can also be found in almost every gun store for $5 to $10.While Boudinot said that's the best way to keep a gun from accidentally firing, something as simple as a zip-tie will also do the job.“Basically, all you do is just run it up through the magazine well, out the top, loop it through there, and there you go,” said Lt. Boudinot, demonstrating how to secure a handgun.He said the zip-tie prevents someone from putting a magazine or ammunition into the gun.“It's not as good as a gun lock of course, but it's something. Something's better than nothing," he said.
I know, it'll take too long to bring the gun into use in case of need. Removing the lock or the zip-tie is just too time consuming when you've got rapists and murderers kicking in the front door.
Is that a valid argument? Let's see. If half the accidental shooting deaths are kids getting ahold of daddy's gun, that would be about 300 lives saved. That's if everyone used gun locks. Do you think 300 lives would be lost due to the couple-second delay required to make the gun available in case of an emergency?
No, I don't think even our most argumentative gun-rights friends would say that.
So, we're all agreed. Let's make proper gun storage mandatory. If a kid gets hurt with a gun that was not properly secured, the gun owner is held responsible, minimum punishment is loss of gun rights. Fair enough?
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Fair enough.
ReplyDeleteOf the 83 kids (under age 18) that were accidentally killed in 2009, I would venture to say that maybe 1/2 of them might have been prevented by a lock or zip tie and certainly we agree that more than 42 kids have been saved by a firearm. One thing that would reduce even more accidental deaths is firearms safety classes in school, and maybe chamber safety flags.
ReplyDeleteThe only proper storage of a home/self defense handgun is in a holster.
That number doesn't sound right to me. Over 500 accidental deaths, but only 83 were kids???
DeleteYep, I just double checked my math; 83 from age zero up to and including age 17. If you calculated the number of accidental firearm related fatalities starting at age zero you'd get to age 37 before you hit 300.
DeleteFascinating. So what's that say about you adult gun owners?
DeleteWell, mikeb, generally speaking, I'd say for the most part, most gun owners are adults. I'd also say the majority of the juvenile victims were shot by adults as well.
DeleteAh, Bill I see the mistake in your math. You were only counting kids up to the age of 17. It is universally accepted that people are classified as kids until at least age 26. Longer if you still live in your parent's basement like me and Baldr.
DeleteLULZ fakemikeb302000.
DeleteMikeb, what that says about all gun owners is that we aren't a clumsy bunch. Five hundred per annum is sad for those involved and unfortunate from a disinterested perspective, but it's far from enough to justify radical changes in gun laws.
DeleteGreg, that 500 refers to deaths. You're leaving out the many who are wounded, the many who are narrowly missed and all those incidents in which by mere chance no one was around.
DeleteWe're talking about perhaps tens of thousands of incidents a year, not just 500.
Tens of thousands? You're guessing again. Provide evidence.
DeleteEvery new gun I have bought in the last dozen years came with a gun lock, provided by the manufacturer. Project Childsafe, that makes gun locks available free of charge to police departments (as mentioned in the article) to hand out is a program of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
ReplyDeleteSo what is it again that the anti's do to help?
Really? Huh. I did not know that as I have never actually bought a gun, or stepped foot in a gun store or gun show before.
DeleteEvery new gun I have bought in the last dozen years came with a gun lock, provided by the manufacturer. Project Childsafe, that makes gun locks available free of charge to police departments (as mentioned in the article) to hand out is a program of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
ReplyDeleteSo what is it again that the anti's do to help?
No, we don't agree. Naturally, the Oregonian agrees with you, but you gun control advocates just sing from the same hymnal. I do agree that parents should train their children in gun safety and should keep their guns out of the hands of children who can't be trusted with firearms.
ReplyDeleteBut have you tried to remove a lock or a zip-tie from a gun? Even in moments of peace, it takes time and attention. Now imagine doing this when someone has broken in to your home. Good luck with that. We're not talking about just a couple of seconds. We could be talking about the rest of your life.
You're just being difficult, Greg. You're one of those not-an-inch guys, and you don't give a fuck about the kids getting hurt or killed.
DeleteAnd you don't care about good citizens who get attacked by home invaders. See how easy it is to toss accusations like that? Until you acknowledge our concerns as valid, why do you imagine that we'll listen to yours?
DeleteMike, here's a test. Get a padlock and key. Put them both on a table. Now go do heavy calisthenics until you're at around 95% Max Heart Rate for your age. Keep working at that pace for a minute or two. Now immediately sprint to that padlock and unlock it. No stopping for a breather.
DeleteThat's a rough way to experience the effects of a mild adrenaline burst. Your hands will be shaking, your vision will be altered, and you're mind will be somewhat altered.
Waking up to someone breaking a window will give you a strong adrenaline burst, your hands will be barely functional, vision completely tunneled, and your memory of the incident will be in no way reliable.
Read some of the stories from Police Officers involved is shootings, had they been given something to sign (signing your name is something you practice millions of times) immediately after, they would have scrawled all up and down the paper.
Fine Motor Skills are the first thing to disappear when under the influence of the human adrenal response. Gun locks require Fine Motor Skills, therefore Gun Locks render a Gun inoperable while the user is under the influence of an adrenal response. That response usually occurs in situations when you would need a gun.
Ok, Dan, you've convinced me. We should continue to encourage people to have their guns available, even if it means kids can get at them.
DeleteYou want us to trust that cheese lock? My 13 year old daughter can pick that lock in about a minute with a paperclip. I've watched her do it several times. If you are really going to advocate for keeping sidearms out of the hands of children at least recommend a decent safe. But this isn't really about saving the lives of children is it, it's all about gun control.
ReplyDeleteI think the solution to children and safe firearm storage is fairly simple. If someone has a firearm for no particular reason, then keep it unloaded and in a safe. If someone is seriously concerned about having a firearm immediately available for self-defense in the event of a home invasion, then keep a handgun in a holster on your hip at all times. Children in the home are not going to break into a safe. And they are not going to shoot a handgun in a holster on their parent's hip. Additionally, all parents should teach their children age appropriate firearm safety. These measures should reduce accidental deaths for children to zero.
ReplyDeleteSome people will ask, "What about sleeping or showering?" If the handgun is in a safe, there is obviously no danger to the children. Another simple solution: place the handgun on a small sturdy shelf that is at least 6 feet above the floor and hides the handgun from view of small eyes -- and never, ever, ever, let your children see you store your handgun up there. It will be safe from very small children who will never have any reason to look up there. And for children who are old enough to move a chair to look, they are old enough to understand that a handgun can easily kill someone if they handle it.
Another great option for people that want a handgun immediately available for self-defense from a home invasion: use a semi-auto handgun and keep the chamber empty. Children that have enough strength and coordination to rack the slide and chamber a round are old enough to be taught not to play with a handgun. With practice, racking the slide of a handgun adds about 1/2 second to reaction time and virtually guarantees a handgun will never be fired accidentally. And when you combine this with the shelf approach that I described, it is incredibly safe.
Oh, and what about during the day when the firearm owner is away from home? The handgun stays in a holster on the owner's hip.
Those are excellent suggestions, Capn Crunch. The only problem is that too many states don't allow or don't make it easy to carry a firearm legally. But really, this shows how carrying a handgun is a safety measure--when it's on me, it's not unsupervised.
DeleteI agree those are good common sense suggestions. Too bad so many of your fellow gun owners are too lazy or stupid or apathetic to follow them.
DeleteThat's why we need legislation.
You admitted above that locking up a gun makes it useless. Are you amitting that your goal is to prevent self defense?
DeleteEven if your legislation passed, it would only affect responsible people, since the lazy or stupid or apathetic don't worry about the law, typically. Quit trying to take away my rights because there are people in this world who are idiots.
In my state we do have children / safe-storage laws for firearms. While the laws do not explicitly spell out how to store your firearms, they do spell out that an adult is criminally liable (and likely civilly liable as well) if a child obtains one of their firearms and injures someone.
DeleteAdults should exercise good judgment. They should treat firearms like they would poison or razor blades if children will ever be in the home.
Greg, are you saying that when I said this you took it as a serious admission to Dan?
Delete"Ok, Dan, you've convinced me. We should continue to encourage people to have their guns available, even if it means kids can get at them."
You're correct about one thing, I do want to take away your right to be an irresponsible and reckless gun owner.
Mikeb, you made no effort to challenge what Dan said--probably because his logic is indisputable. A gun that is locked up cannot be used and takes time to get it into action. That's what you want, of course, but you can't argue with the facts.
DeleteBut why do you call me a reckless and irresponsible gun owner? I have no children. Children rarely enter my home. When they do, I make sure that every firearm--and knife and other dangerous object--is secured. Most of my guns are locked up always. I keep a limited number available for use, but not visible, and anyone who breaks in will have to placate my suspicious dog. So how am I irresponsible?
Greg, my problem with you is based mainly on your low standards for shooting and killing someone in self-defense. To me this indicates an insensitivity to the value of life.
Delete