Thursday, December 6, 2012

Was Jesus Christ for Gun Rights or Gun Control?

via The Raw Story

 
Fischer fails to note that later in The Gospel According to Luke, Jesus rebukes his disciple for using a sword during his arrest. In the version of the same story recounted by The Gospel According to Matthew, Jesus tells his disciples, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”

What do you think? Please leave a comment.

17 comments:

  1. I can't get the video to run (a problem I run into on all of the videos that have that "look" when they're on a website--the black background and red start button) but I'm pretty sure that this is the same Bryan Fischer from the AFA who hatez on teh GAYZ and uppity women, Obama and most anything/anyone who doesn't conform with/subscribe to his warped fucking worldview.

    Yeah, that's the guy you want as a spokesperson for your crusade.

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  2. Small side issue, mikeb302000. That last comment (and others I've left here and elsewhere) has a couple of words that show up in different color than the rest of he words. They're also underlined. The will, when clicked on, take you to some adpage. Do you have any idea what's causing that?

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    1. Democommie, I can help you out here. You've picked up malware that's doing that. When you hover the mouse cursor over the highlighted word, you'll be shown an ad.

      I run Spybot-Search & Destroy and Malwarebytes. They should clean that up for you.

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    2. Thanks Greg. I had no idea what might have been causing that.

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  3. As usual you have to read the Bible as a whole and read everything intelligently in context.

    Let's look at the context of the story in Matthew and Luke. Jesus first instructs his disciples to buy swords if they do not have any ... literally telling them to sell their coats if necessary to acquire the necessary money. Additionally, when the disciples reply that they already have two swords, Jesus replies that two is enough. Then Jesus tells Peter to put his sword back in its sheath after Peter tries to defend Jesus from the crowd.

    If Jesus did not want his disciples to have swords, why did he tell them to purchase swords? Why had he not previously ordered Peter to get rid of his sword? Why was his command to Peter to put his sword back in its sheath -- rather than getting rid of the sword? Either Jesus was a plum crazy or there was a simple explanation. The simple explanation is that Jesus did not want Peter to take on the entire crowd all by himself -- which would have been a suicide mission.

    More importantly, if we look at the Bible as a whole, one of the most obvious messages is that human life is sacred. Consistent with that message are several examples where it is noble and right to defend human life from aggressors.

    Thus I cannot conclude that Jesus was an advocate of weapon (gun) control. Rather, he was an advocate of the sanctity of human life -- and recognized that people would need the means to effectively defend human life from criminals and evil tyrants.

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    1. The same argument could be used by our side. For you to use it, you have to pretend that guns are ONLY used for defensive and legitimate reasons. The fact is they do far more harm than good, so I don't imagine any honest person, let alone Jesus himself, would side with gun rights.

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  4. Interesting topic, but irrelevant to American law. We are, by definition, a secular nation. Our legal traditions come out of English common law and go back to the customs of the Angles and Saxons.

    Our status as a secular nation is what has allowed religion to flourish in this country. In much of Europe, churches are dying. The people, by and large, are atheists. But the countries in many cases have official religions. In Iran and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, one religion is the state religion, and woe be unto you if you express any opinion against it. Here, we're free to do as we choose, and the vast majority of Americans are believers in some religion--most of thoseare Christians.

    Fundamentalist Christians should stop trying to control their neighbors. (Note the similarity with gun control fundamentalists.) Freedom of choice is the best thing for their religion.

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  5. Fundamentalists christians are similar to gun control fundamentalists? Another one of your many brainless assertions.

    If Jesus had mentioned beating plowshares into swords gunzloonznation would be shouting it from the rooftops.

    Bryan Fischer is a hate-filled, anti-gay, anti-women and anti-atheist scumbag.

    Christian Identity groups are the major players in the armed militia movement. These are the people that your idiocy enables.

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    1. You know more about him than I do. I certainly don't support what I've seen of him, nor do I support the Christian Identity people--other than their right to believe as they wish, so long as they aren't harming others.

      But yes, fundamentalists of all kinds are the same. They seek to control others out of a perverted belief that they understand the world better than the rest of us. By contrast, all my side really wants is the freedom to make our own choices and to be able to defend ourselves from mortal threats. Don't try to kill me, and I'll leave you to be whoever you want and do whatever you want.

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    2. It must be sad to truly believe that you are right, yet watch as your philosophy garners the disdain of the world.

      People don't want freedom, by your own logic, who are you to fore it upon them.

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    3. How so? People around the world are getting rid of their tyrants and demanding choice in their own affairs and in the way that their society is organized.

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    4. Why (after a short period of American-style political insecurity) do they then proceed to replace the recently overthrown "tyrant" with another "tyrant"? The "revolutions" which you speak of mainly consist of violence perpetuated by armed mobs and various sects of religious fanatics.

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  6. I think that an 1800-year-old book is very poor evidence for either side of the gun rights argument.

    Moonshine

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  7. " think that an 1800-year-old book is very poor evidence for either side of the gun rights argument."

    Which is why secularists and atheists rely on statistics instead of fairy tales.

    It's interesting that a lot of the same people who rely on the bible to attempt to justify their hatred of teh GAY, womens' rights and other societal advances used to rely on it to justify slavery--and still do to justify attacking other countries.

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    1. "Which is why secularists and atheists rely on statistics instead of fairy tales."
      ------
      Of course, though the proper method is to be led to a hypothesis by the existing data, and not the other way around.

      Moonshine

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    2. Democommie, being an atheist isn't a guarantee of being smart or good any more than being a believer makes one stupid and evil. Here's a thought: Take all of your remarks about gun owners and religious believers and substitute "black person" for the other categories. If the comment then feels racist, then you may want to rethink what you have to say.

      I look at what a person does, and I consider the quality of the reasoning presented, but a person being a Christian or a gun owner or black or an atheist tells me nothing about the worth of that person.

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