Its almost impossible to even walk down the street without ID anymore in a lot of places.
Its also your constitutional right to engage in commerce but try to do so without ID for most anything now days.
Its your constitutional right to travel, but try to do that without ID.
You have to have an ID to rent, buy, lease, fly, get utilities, cash a check, use a credit card, get a credit card, pick up mail, be on welfare and on and on and on. Why?? Because everyone wants to know WHO YOU ARE!
Too many people, far too many have found too many ways to cheat the system and cheat people out of something. People don't want to be cheated anymore, that's all. There is NO excuse that can be given not to have an ID. None, zilch, period.
None of the people affected by these new requirements had been voting with NO ID. It's just that suddenly the ID they've always used is not good enough. And the new requirements are not in response to a real problem with voter fraud, they're a trick to disqualify Democratic-inclined voters.
Some had been voting with no ID. In Tennessee, before we passed the law that got us all the same bad press, you didn't even show your voter ID card (which has no photo), you just walked in, told them your name, and initialed by it in the precinct's log book.
I don't care much for having to show ID for everything, but when it comes to voting, it would seem to be common sense that you should show some form of reliable ID to prove that you are who you say you are.
As for the idea of not accepting certain ID's like school ID's, and yet accepting, horror of horrors, Carry Permits! Carry Permits and Driver's Licenses are issued after someone's ID is established. Some schools may have strict protocols, but most pass out ID's extremely easily and without anti-counterfeiting measures, so it makes sense to be wary of such ID's.
I'm still trying to figure out how you can tolerate the exercise of a right without ID, much less without evaluation and a background check. Voting has much more consequence than owning a gun.
If voter fraud was a real problem, I might agree with ID protocols, but it's not, and the facts prove it's not. The last election, the only proven voter fraud was perpetrated by Republican operatives. Many (especially low income) people don't drive, don't have a checking account, don't have credit cards, etc., therefore see no need to pay the government for any ID card. Some of these voter laws don't even give a reasonable time to get an ID before the election. Exactly why some judges ruled against these laws. Why would some of these laws ban extended voting hours that are already law? Don't we want voting to be as easy and accessible as possible? Make the ID cards to vote free, then it's not a poll tax, otherwise, it is. Most libraries have their own ID cards; and you can only check out books with their ID cards, not a drivers license. Give a national holiday for voting, then it might be reasonable to eliminate extended voting hours.
What I'm saying and what I mean is that the terms of the laws, when we step back and look at them, are not that unreasonable. It makes sense to require that people offer some proof of their identity, and it makes sense that such proof be reasonably secure. If we just look at the terms of the law, taken separate from the motives of those who proposed it, where is your issue with it?
As for the motivations of the Republicans bringing these laws--some of them may simply want to apply logical changes to the system as I described--I do know that this is the motivation of most grassroots supporters of the bills who I've talked to.
And yes, I'm sure that many, probably Most of them, who just want to play dirty pool and eliminate opposing voters as much as possible--e.g. the ones in Ohio who extended voting in Republican districts and not Democratic ones.
They're politicians, what do you expect? They can't be trusted and most of them will do anything to get ahead.
It's just like the Democrats that support Immigration "Reform" because they want to get new voters, but who don't propose any comprehensive reforms other than amnesty because by leaving the system mostly broken, they can come back and give another amnesty in the future, and another after that, etc.
So, do we oppose the good bills proposed for self-serving reasons, just because the person proposing the bill is an asshole? Or do we say, "Well, you're an asshole, but this bill makes sense" and pass it?
Besides the obvious benefits, there might even be some interesting and side effects as everyone had the day off and gathered at the polling places. It would be interesting to have impromptu BBQ's and picnics outside the restricted areas with everyone talking and arguing over the issues on the day off, and then heading in to vote.
Texas, how can you say it has nothing to do with eliminating democratic votes and only to do with eliminating fraud? Do you disagree with Jim's contention that there is practically no fraud to eliminate? Do you disagree that the poor people who are affected by this are mainly Democrats?
Mike, yes I do disagree with Jims position as there are hundreds of case now being prosecuted, poll workers being fired for voter fraud, and investigations of thousands of dead people voting in the last election. Heck, there is even videos online of people committing voter fraud, poll workers explaining how to commit voter fraud to those who want to do so. And investigations of how whole counties went 100% one way when history shows that has never happened before. In several states, key states at that and hundreds of counties. Poll workers even accepting a letter from an advertiser addressed to "occupant" as proof of a resident to get into the voting booth.
There is plenty of evidence of fraud, investigations are on going. You have to blind and deaf and/or totally ignorant to say there is no evidence.
I also will disagree with you that poor people are mostly democrats. It is also possible that poor people can get state issued ID at no cost. There is absolutely NO excuse that can be given not to obtain one.
"I cant get to the highway dept", if you can get to the poll location, you can get to the local highway dept to get an ID.
"I don't speak English", there are multi lingual personnel everywhere.
"I think its stupid to have an ID", then your too stupid to vote, because you cant do much else without an ID.
Are you saying that those poor democrats are stupid, Mike?
Its all about fraud Mike. To have a single person vote five times to my single vote is fraud. Its just as bad, or WORSE than JJJ stealing his supporters money for personal use. I don't care which side of the room you stand for, fraud is stealing. Using fraud to steal an election is not representing the peoples choice for representation.
This also means that the push to block military votes, which I hear is mostly republican, is just as fraudulent as those who commit voter fraud. That's hundreds of thousands of votes and voices that were blocked by democrat posturing.
Just like alcohol and drug use, I have ZERO tolerance for theft. Even with voting.
Yes it does affect democrat votes but only the fraudulent ones. The same way that the democrats disenfranchised the military votes, altho those were legitimate, it could affect the democrat outcome.
It needs to become a fair and equitable system Mike, right now it is not. ALL legitimate votes counted, fraudulent votes thrown out and those that commit fraud sent to work camps for repayment to the people they attempted to cheat.
If the only way you can win is cheating, then the people didn't want you in the first place.
You mean Democrats oppose having to have a photo ID to exercise a right? I'm shocked.
ReplyDeleteIts almost impossible to even walk down the street without ID anymore in a lot of places.
ReplyDeleteIts also your constitutional right to engage in commerce but try to do so without ID for most anything now days.
Its your constitutional right to travel, but try to do that without ID.
You have to have an ID to rent, buy, lease, fly, get utilities, cash a check, use a credit card, get a credit card, pick up mail, be on welfare and on and on and on. Why?? Because everyone wants to know WHO YOU ARE!
Too many people, far too many have found too many ways to cheat the system and cheat people out of something. People don't want to be cheated anymore, that's all. There is NO excuse that can be given not to have an ID. None, zilch, period.
None of the people affected by these new requirements had been voting with NO ID. It's just that suddenly the ID they've always used is not good enough. And the new requirements are not in response to a real problem with voter fraud, they're a trick to disqualify Democratic-inclined voters.
DeleteSome had been voting with no ID. In Tennessee, before we passed the law that got us all the same bad press, you didn't even show your voter ID card (which has no photo), you just walked in, told them your name, and initialed by it in the precinct's log book.
DeleteI don't care much for having to show ID for everything, but when it comes to voting, it would seem to be common sense that you should show some form of reliable ID to prove that you are who you say you are.
As for the idea of not accepting certain ID's like school ID's, and yet accepting, horror of horrors, Carry Permits! Carry Permits and Driver's Licenses are issued after someone's ID is established. Some schools may have strict protocols, but most pass out ID's extremely easily and without anti-counterfeiting measures, so it makes sense to be wary of such ID's.
Say what you maen, man. Are you saying this IS NOT an attempt on the part of the Republicans to eliminate Democratic voters?
DeleteI'm still trying to figure out how you can tolerate the exercise of a right without ID, much less without evaluation and a background check. Voting has much more consequence than owning a gun.
DeleteIf voter fraud was a real problem, I might agree with ID protocols, but it's not, and the facts prove it's not. The last election, the only proven voter fraud was perpetrated by Republican operatives.
DeleteMany (especially low income) people don't drive, don't have a checking account, don't have credit cards, etc., therefore see no need to pay the government for any ID card.
Some of these voter laws don't even give a reasonable time to get an ID before the election. Exactly why some judges ruled against these laws.
Why would some of these laws ban extended voting hours that are already law? Don't we want voting to be as easy and accessible as possible?
Make the ID cards to vote free, then it's not a poll tax, otherwise, it is. Most libraries have their own ID cards; and you can only check out books with their ID cards, not a drivers license.
Give a national holiday for voting, then it might be reasonable to eliminate extended voting hours.
None of this has to do with eliminating democrat or republican votes. It has everything to do with eliminating fraudulent votes on BOTH sides.
DeleteWhat I'm saying and what I mean is that the terms of the laws, when we step back and look at them, are not that unreasonable. It makes sense to require that people offer some proof of their identity, and it makes sense that such proof be reasonably secure. If we just look at the terms of the law, taken separate from the motives of those who proposed it, where is your issue with it?
DeleteAs for the motivations of the Republicans bringing these laws--some of them may simply want to apply logical changes to the system as I described--I do know that this is the motivation of most grassroots supporters of the bills who I've talked to.
And yes, I'm sure that many, probably Most of them, who just want to play dirty pool and eliminate opposing voters as much as possible--e.g. the ones in Ohio who extended voting in Republican districts and not Democratic ones.
They're politicians, what do you expect? They can't be trusted and most of them will do anything to get ahead.
It's just like the Democrats that support Immigration "Reform" because they want to get new voters, but who don't propose any comprehensive reforms other than amnesty because by leaving the system mostly broken, they can come back and give another amnesty in the future, and another after that, etc.
So, do we oppose the good bills proposed for self-serving reasons, just because the person proposing the bill is an asshole? Or do we say, "Well, you're an asshole, but this bill makes sense" and pass it?
I agree with Jim in one respect: Election Day should be a national, paid holiday. Only the Fourth of July is of equivalent importance.
DeleteI'll second that too.
DeleteBesides the obvious benefits, there might even be some interesting and side effects as everyone had the day off and gathered at the polling places. It would be interesting to have impromptu BBQ's and picnics outside the restricted areas with everyone talking and arguing over the issues on the day off, and then heading in to vote.
Texas, how can you say it has nothing to do with eliminating democratic votes and only to do with eliminating fraud? Do you disagree with Jim's contention that there is practically no fraud to eliminate? Do you disagree that the poor people who are affected by this are mainly Democrats?
DeleteMike,
DeleteHow can you disagree that it makes sense to have a way to verify who a person is and that they are registered to vote?
Mike, yes I do disagree with Jims position as there are hundreds of case now being prosecuted, poll workers being fired for voter fraud, and investigations of thousands of dead people voting in the last election. Heck, there is even videos online of people committing voter fraud, poll workers explaining how to commit voter fraud to those who want to do so. And investigations of how whole counties went 100% one way when history shows that has never happened before. In several states, key states at that and hundreds of counties. Poll workers even accepting a letter from an advertiser addressed to "occupant" as proof of a resident to get into the voting booth.
ReplyDeleteThere is plenty of evidence of fraud, investigations are on going. You have to blind and deaf and/or totally ignorant to say there is no evidence.
I also will disagree with you that poor people are mostly democrats. It is also possible that poor people can get state issued ID at no cost. There is absolutely NO excuse that can be given not to obtain one.
Delete"I cant get to the highway dept", if you can get to the poll location, you can get to the local highway dept to get an ID.
"I don't speak English", there are multi lingual personnel everywhere.
"I think its stupid to have an ID", then your too stupid to vote, because you cant do much else without an ID.
Are you saying that those poor democrats are stupid, Mike?
Its all about fraud Mike. To have a single person vote five times to my single vote is fraud. Its just as bad, or WORSE than JJJ stealing his supporters money for personal use. I don't care which side of the room you stand for, fraud is stealing. Using fraud to steal an election is not representing the peoples choice for representation.
This also means that the push to block military votes, which I hear is mostly republican, is just as fraudulent as those who commit voter fraud. That's hundreds of thousands of votes and voices that were blocked by democrat posturing.
Just like alcohol and drug use, I have ZERO tolerance for theft. Even with voting.
If that's all true, then why is it the Republicans pushing for these changes? Obviously, because it affects Democratic votes.
DeleteYes it does affect democrat votes but only the fraudulent ones. The same way that the democrats disenfranchised the military votes, altho those were legitimate, it could affect the democrat outcome.
DeleteIt needs to become a fair and equitable system Mike, right now it is not. ALL legitimate votes counted, fraudulent votes thrown out and those that commit fraud sent to work camps for repayment to the people they attempted to cheat.
If the only way you can win is cheating, then the people didn't want you in the first place.