arma virumque cano (et alia)
So now you're whining about people not being executed?
No, not that. But, why don't you explain to us how racism plays no part in this amazing statistic?
I make no such claim about "this amazing statistic."
Mike, while I was able to read this article earlier, the link isn't working now for some reason. I also went to a different article which sourced the same article, and that link wasn't working either.http://publichealthwatch.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/florida-has-never-executed-a-white-person-for-killing-a-black-person/ So, what do you propose as a solution for this issue? Keep in mind that there are numerous avenues to both appeal convictions and to request sentence commutation.
Abolish capital punishment is the only thing to be done. The underlying racism cannot be eradicated easily or quickly, but recognizing it still exists and acknowledging it is important. Whenever I suggest that racism may play a part in a gun story, the opposition from you gun-rights guys is always there. You can't be right every time. In your frenzy to disagree with anything I say, you guys are in effect saying there is no more racism. That just ain't so.
Whenever I suggest that racism may play a part in a gun story . . . "Whenever [you] suggest that racism may play a part"? As I remember, you tend to be far more definitive than that. In fact, I wouldn't generally argue with the "suggestion" that it "may play a part." Indeed it may, in many cases.You, however, seem to tend to figure racism is to be assumed.Our opposition to that is in no way "in effect saying there is no more racism."
I don't believe I've ever said that. But, I too have reservations regarding the death penalty. Mine have nothing to do with any perceived racism, but more on the possibility of the government killing an innocent man or woman, whatever their color may be. But then, the best way to remove this doubt is for the penalty to be applied during an act of self defense by the intended victim.
So you're strategy is to cry "racism" at everything assuming sometimes you might be right?
No, TS, I just calls 'em likes I sees 'em.
No, TS, I just calls 'em likes I sees 'em.Would it be unfair to suggest that you "sees 'em" as racism at a rate very closely approaching 100%?
MikeB: "I just calls 'em likes I sees 'em."I have no doubt you sees it that way.
That's a good thing, right?Of course when we look at something broader we see your claim does not hold up. But it's typical for race baiters and gun controllers to hunt for one small thing to glom on to. Not people on death row, not murder conviction rates, not violent crime conviction rates, but rather completed executions (the statistic with the tiniest sample size).http://m.staugustine.com/opinions/2014-03-12/editorial-stand-your-ground-isnt-about-race
What's your point?
My point is murders are rare. It's even more rare when you only look at one state. And even more rare when you look at one race. And even more rare still when that race murders one particular minority race (race of victim is not an even distribution). And even more rare when the murderer is convicted. And even more rare that they end up on death row, and rarest of rare when the execution is actually performed. So you got to zero. I bet there has been no Mongolian executed for murdering an Inuit in Florida too, but what does that mean? If it is due to racism, you should be able to see bias in broader categories with meaningful sample sizes. Do you know how many people Florida has executed? 84. That's total since reinstating the death penalty.http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/number-executions-state-and-region-1976
So, this amazing statistic has nothing at all to do with racism? Is that your mathematically derived-at opinion?
So, Mikeb, if Florida's justice system suddenly (and rather inexplicably) decided that they couldn't bear the thought of Mikeb thinking they're racist, how many white murderers of black people would they have to kill to satisfy you that they are equal opportunity executioners?
Yes, mathematically speaking it's not "amazing" that you can't find a rare subset of murders in a pool of only 84 examples.Have you shown us an "amazing" statistic of bias for white on black violent crime? That might be meaningful.
Stand Your Ground laws were designed to give legal cover to "white" people to kill "black" people.
Yet black defendants "get away with defending themselves" at a higher rate than white defendants. I guess those racist law makers weren't counting on judges and juries not being racist like them (you know, the ones who actually make the decisions on who's guilty).
Well, then the "white" people must have passed a bad law. Because somehow it seems to be used in the defense of "black" people."African-Americans are actually overrepresented among concealed pistol license holders compared to whites in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. They’re also most likely to use stand your ground and Castle Doctrine laws: 99 of 126 civilians who killed in self-defense in Michigan from 2000 to 2010 were African-American."http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-gun-debate-misses-mark-in-detroit.html
You're damn right the white folks have passed a bad law. And you gun-rights guys are so fanatical that you continue to support it in spite of its obvious flaws.
Actually Mike, I was a bit sarcastically referring to the fact that the law isn't inherently racist as Gene asserts because, as my example shows, in some areas, African-Americans are in the majority when invoking the defense.
And that brings up the problem. Many of those benefiting from the stand your ground laws are getting away with criminal behavior. And yes, many of them are black, but that has nothing to do with the inherent problems with the law. My point was that you guys don't care about that as long as you have the maximum leniency when wielding your heaters in supposed self defense.
I thought your point is that white people would "get away with" defending themselves more often than black people? Aren't you saying that Florida cops, judges, and juries are racist?
The numbers I've seen say that 85% of murder victims are killed by someone of their own race. If only 15% of murders are interracial, we'd expect few of that type of murderer to be on death row anyway.
So, no racism here? Is that your take on it, Greg?
I'm saying that since only 15% of murders are done by a member of one race against someone of another race, there aren't many chances for the kind of execution that you're talking about in the first place. Then we have to add in the fact that not all murders are eligible for the death penalty. After that, we have to look up how many whites have killed blacks. As always, your simplistic approach of taking a factoid and drawing sweeping conclusions doesn't work.
Was that an answer to my question? "So, no racism here? Is that your take on it, Greg?"
Mikeb, must you play the simpleton? My answer is clear: This is not evidence of racism. Many things are possible, but nothing is proved by the isolated fact here.
I know you want the death penalty abolished, as well as SYG, but what's your point? If racist people apply a law unequally, the law should be abolished? Like say... May-issue CCW permitting?
And gun control generally.
A simple statistic shows the problem of institutional racism. A problem America has had for 400 years. To deny institutional racism exist is either a position of racists, or those not smart enough to evaluate facts.
I don't deny that racism exists, this example is not good evidence of racism. Just because racism exists doesn't mean we should cry "racism" all the time. For starters, it undermines real cases of racism.
Florida Has Never Executed A White Person For Killing A Black PersonThat statement doesn't even pass a simple logic test. Something else is at work besides non biased regular judicial processes.