Tuesday, September 2, 2014

How Could Proper Gun Control Laws Prevent Criminals, Who Don't Obey Them, Get Guns?

So mike b tell me how gun laws keep guns out of criminals hands. Most criminals have illegal guns not registered legal guns. So do you really think making it harder for normal joe to get a gun and protect themselves is going to help stop criminals from obtaining illegal guns... Ummm no just like anything let's say drugs you set laws and all and does that stop people from buying illegal drugs umm no not all. Actually their is proof in studies that's say the opposite. Such as in place were the drug laws are laxed there is less drug use, drug related deaths, and less crimes over all... So now with gun it will be the same people will get even more illegal guns as gun control makes it harder to obtain one legally. This is not to say I think everyone needs a gun I'm just saying making it harder makes the black market bigger we need to find other ways.
  1. You must be new around here and like most gun-rights fanatics your ability to think a thing through is very limited. You content yourself with repeating the mindless stupid shit other superficial gun nuts say.

    First of all you have to realize that almost every single gun used in crime started out the lawful property of someone. Criminals get those guns only a few simple ways. Theft - which would be mostly eliminated by enacting safe storage laws in the home. You guys love to leave guns around the house, in nightstands, in closets, under the bed, and thieves take advantage of that irresponsible behavior to the tune of half-a-million guns a year.

    Next we have the private sales without background checks. You guys love to sell your guns on Craig's List and at gun shows and take advantage of the law that allows you to do so without demanding a background check from the buyer. A simple law would prevent most of that.

    Another way that is often overlooked is the law-abiding gun owner who goes bad. Those are guns owned legally by someone who suddenly stops being law-abiding, so the gun doesn't even change hands and has gone from the law-abiding to the criminal worlds. What can be done about that is an overall tightening up of the laws which govern gun ownership. Proper gun control laws I call them.


  1. You need to realise that guns are the one item which start out legal and then shift into the black market/"crime gun" category. Very few of those "crime guns" started out as "crime guns".

    I'd toss in that stiff sentences for gun crimes also help quite a bit.

    Criminals may not obey the law, but they also get punished for not obeying the law.

  2. You might find this an illuminating read:

    Effects of undercover police stings of gun dealers on the supply of new guns to criminals


    To assess the effects of undercover police stings and lawsuits against gun dealers suspected of facilitating illegal gun sales in three US cities (Chicago, Detroit, Gary) on the flow of new firearms to criminals.

    An interrupted time series design and negative binomial regression analyses were used to test for temporal change in the recovery of guns used in crimes within one year of retail sale in both intervention and comparison cities.

    The stings were associated with an abrupt 46.4% reduction in the flow of new guns to criminals in Chicago (95% confidence interval, −58.6% to −30.5%), and with a gradual reduction in new crime guns recovered in Detroit. There was no significant change associated with the stings in Gary, and no change in comparison cities that was coincident with the stings in Chicago and Detroit.

    The announcement of police stings and lawsuits against suspect gun dealers appeared to have reduced the supply of new guns to criminals in Chicago significantly, and may have contributed to beneficial effects in Detroit. Given the important role that gun stores play in supplying guns to criminals in the US, further efforts of this type are warranted and should be evaluated.

  3. Another one for you:


    Effects of a gun dealer's change in sales practices on the supply of guns to criminals.
    Webster DW1, Vernick JS, Bulzacchelli MT.


    Licensed gun dealers are a major conduit for gun trafficking. Prior to May 1999, a single gun store sold more than half of the guns recovered from criminals in Milwaukee, WI, shortly following retail sale. On May 10, 1999, the store stopped selling small, inexpensive handguns popular with criminals, often called "Saturday night specials." The purpose of this study was to estimate the effect of this gun store's changed sales practices on criminals' acquisition of new guns. We used an interrupted time-series design with comparisons to test for changes in the number of guns that police recovered from criminals within a year of retail sale following the gun dealer's new sales policy. The dealer's changed sales policy was associated with a 96% decrease in recently sold, small, inexpensive handguns use in crime in Milwaukee, a 73% decrease in crime guns recently sold by this dealer, and a 44% decrease in the flow of all new, trafficked guns to criminals in Milwaukee. The findings demonstrate the substantial impact that a single gun store's sales practices can have on the supply of new guns to criminals. Proposed anti-gun-trafficking efforts in other cities could benefit from targeting problem retail outlets

  4. A couple of final thoughts to leave you with:
    1) there has been a freeze on funding for gun violence research since 1996 with the following wording: “none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at [relevant agency name] may be used to advocate or promote gun control.” This was due to the fact that data was showing that guns are not the panacea they are promoted as being.

    Additionally, there is the Tiahrt Amendment which was intended on obfuscating the relationship between legal gun sales and the black market, ostensibly to protect against lawsuits. The reality is to keep gun trafficking data hard to obtain.

    2) There are two ways that guns enter the black market: legal sales and theft.

    Now, if you are going with the vast amount of guns on the black market are stolen, then they probably aren't the best method of home protection: are they?

    I mean, do you want to be robbed with the gun you bought to protect your home?

    Anyway, if the "pro-gun" side is in the right, wouldn't it make sense to fund serious research to back it up?

    Why cut off research funding if it supports your argument?

    Unless, of course, it shows you are telling porkies.

    1. "there has been a freeze on funding for gun violence research since 1996 with the following wording: “none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at [relevant agency name] may be used to advocate or promote gun control.” This was due to the fact that data was showing that guns are not the panacea they are promoted as being." - you are attempting to mislead here. There was not an issue with the data only using tax money to promote a political claim that had no evidence to support it. Just as would you want the CDC spending tax money to promote smoking?

    2. "There are two ways that guns enter the black market: legal sales and theft"
      - Stolen many times means stolen from stores, police, and government agencies.
      - As we know thousands of guns were given to drug cartel by F&F failed operation.
      - There also have been several "store front sting" operations by ATF that leaked a lot of guns
      - There are also guns smuggled in from Mexico, that are stolen or "otherwise lost" by Mexician solders and police, many of the guns were purchased with US aid money.
      - straw purchases from FFL's is also one route, however, if the FFL makes a habit of such assisting in straw purchases, they get caught quickly
      - private sales is another route, however, based on CO data that we now have, we now know that private sales amount to less than 4% of gun sales
      - of course I suspect that there some big time smugglers like the control advocated Leland Yee in CA.

  5. The only person this obtuse is GC.