Wednesday, October 29, 2014

Who's winning the hearts and minds in the gun responsibility debate?

Second Amendment supporters:
The "armed intelligentsia" at work.

Gun responsibility supporters:

And if it's true that Jared Loughner was openly carrying for at least 15 minutes prior to the Tucson mass shooting, then people carrying guns might not be a good idea.

When the "gun rights" crowd can't pull their sock puppetry, it's pretty obvious the movement is a flop.


Operation American Spring falls flat: ‘This is very disappointing,’ Texan says

And if that source says it was a flop, it was a serious flop.

Kroger likes to think of themselves as apolitical. They need to realise that a prohibition on open carry isn't a political statement, rather it is in the best interests of customer safety.

More here:


  1. "On September 17, a Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America chapter in Lansing, Michigan, was protesting Kroger's gun policy in a Lansing Kroger store parking lot when they were asked to leave. "

    "Kroger has refused to meet with Watts, and for good reason—she represents a radical and small group of anti-liberty activists that are attempting to bully the nation’s second-largest retailer into adopting a policy that exceeds state laws, and would put Kroger employees in the uncomfortable position of having to tell customers that their civil rights are not valued or respected.
    Kroger’s management has refused to entertain Watts and her small band of shrill anti-liberty activists during their two-month jihad, which has also seen individual store managers refuse to engage with the group.
    Watts and her cult have been very desperate in their attempt to bully Kroger, to the point of even attempting to blame armed robberies on the stores common sense policy of following local, state, and federal laws."

    It will be interesting to see how this is spun by both sides. I applaud Kroger in its wish to just be able to do business and conform to local laws in whatever state their venue is in.
    The part about blaming Kroger for armed violence sounds like Baldr's favorite hobby on his Walmart Shootings page, where the police shooting a child abductor counts the same as someone robbing someone.

  2. "Gun responsibility supporters"

    1. There's a symmetry in this story. The women who expose their breasts in protest do the gun-control movement more harm than good, just as the open carry fanatics do for the gun-rights movement.

  3. "And if it's true that Jared Loughner was openly carrying for at least 15 minutes prior to the Tucson mass shooting, then people carrying guns might not be a good idea."

    It sounds like she's making stuff up. I haven't been able to find any witness statements saying Loughner open carried, and there was surveillance video both inside and outside the store mentioned.

    "Neither Safeway staff nor the taxi driver who brought the killer to the store, nor any other witnesses, nor the store’s internal or external security cameras, saw the firearm until the murderer was about to open fire.
    A contemporary account from the New York Times describes how the killer was captured on Safeway store video both inside and outside the store. His pistol was not seen on video until he was outside the store, holding it against his leg up until the moment that he rapidly approached and shot Rep. Giffords at a range of several feet.
    Another Moms Demand supporter, Jennifer Longdon, was similarly caught in another apparent lie earlier this year."

    "His demeanor was so unremarkable that the driver thought nothing of walking into the store with Mr. Loughner to get change, and did not know that a shooting rampage occurred at the scene until many hours later.
    “No red flags went up,” said Joe Acosta, the general manager of the taxi company, AAA Full Transportation. “The customer got his change, our driver got his fare and left, and that’s it.”

  4. For this being one of their prime campaigns, they don't seem to have been able to turn out many people. It was particularly ironic that they accused Kroger of changing the location of the meeting in order to avoid a confrontation when that was a common tactic used for gun control groups in order to avoid having to compete with a larger number of gun rights advocates.

    "About 40 protesters gathered outside the center, chanting "groceries not guns." The group wants Kroger to forbid shoppers from bringing guns to stores – something the grocer claims rarely happens.
    Kroger defers to state and local laws that govern where gun owners can carry their firearms."

    From their Facebook page,

    "KROGER EXECS MOVE VENUE TO AVOID MOMS: While it was still dark, Kroger executives loaded their investors onto a bus to take them to a secret meeting location to avoid Moms Demand Action's protest of their open carry policy. But we found them! And, not surprisingly, Kroger's new meeting location didn't allow open carry or any firearms at all. Nearly 60 Moms members from across the country showed up at Kroger's annual investor relations meeting near Cincinnati."

  5. It's fun to watch these grown men running a multi billion corporation running and hiding from a handful of women. Plenty of cowardly fear in that boardroom.

    1. "Plenty of cowardly fear in that boardroom."

      Not fear at all likely. Likely just didn't want to waste time dealing with the whining of a special interest group that bases its dealings with companies on confrontation. If they aren't going to even make a meaningless symbolic statement like Target, or Starbucks to shut them up, then there's no point in letting them have their confrontation.
      Commendable of them.

    2. BS. That's why they are dogging them.
      Cowards. Why don't they just say they disagree and won't comply to their requests? Because they are afraid of the negative public response and publicity. Which shows they are on the wrong side of the issue.

    3. "Why don't they just say they disagree and won't comply to their requests?"

      Your kidding, right? They've been saying no to the MOMs since the first time they've asked. The MOMs however aren't willing to accept the answer they've repeatedly gotten and continue to harass the company, even being told to leave their property on occasion.
      No point in getting into it over and over.

    4. So you are saying the MOM's don't have a right to protest them? Figures.

    5. Never said that Anon, all 40 or so have every right to protest on public property. However, there is no obligation for anyone to pay attention to them, especially the Kroger shareholders.

    6. "The MOMs however aren't willing to accept the answer they've repeatedly gotten and continue to harass the company,"

      That says to me you don't think they have a right to continue to protest. Try again.

    7. "That says to me you don't think they have a right to continue to protest. "

      Wrong Anon, I think its great that they're keeping busy. However, Laci posted a photo of counter protestors, I'm assuming in order to illustrate how much more popular the MOMs' cause is.
      I'm thinking though that the reason for the meager turnout of pro-gun protesters and the Kroger shareholders leaving them in a cloud of bus exhaust is that people are no longer taking them seriously.

    8. Wrong. The meager turnout for protests is because people refuse to get involved. The same reason we have meager voter turnout for elections, so people have to live under minority rule and we have angry political confrontations.

  6. Just saw this online. Sort of an update, and a good one in that it seems that Kroger isn't backing off on their original stance. Sort of makes me feel bad that there isn't a store nearby that I can patronize to show my support.

    "During a March 25 appearance on CNBC’s Squawk Box, Kroger CFO Michael Schlotman said the retail food chain will not comply with the demands of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, especially as those demands touch on changing store policy to disarm open-carry customers in states where openly carrying a gun in Kroger is legal."