A machine pistol used by a street hustler and aspiring rapper shot dead in a Times Square gunfight was purchased from a Virginia gun shop by a woman who reported it stolen 10 days after she bought it, authorities said.
One thing I noticed is that New York not only has strict gun laws, but apparently they know how to investigate a gun's history. The tracing of this Mac 10 was done almost immediately. Which brings up a question that I haven't seen addressed: is that a pistol that can fire on fully automatic? Do the restrictions against "machine guns" not apply to pistols?
Jordan Kelsey-Stewart, 25, bought the weapon Oct. 18 from Dale's Guns in Powhatan, Va., chief NYPD police spokesman Paul Browne said Friday. Officials with Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are trying to find her and are investigating whether she had any connection to Martinez; a telephone listing for her could not immediately be found on Friday.
Ms. Kelsey-Stewart reported the gun stolen from her car? Shouldn't that in itself be a crime? Isn't leaving a gun in a car like asking for it to be stolen? I know I would never leave anything of value in a parked car. How about you?
Investigators also were trying to determine whether Martinez had other weapons. They said they found a .22-caliber handgun during a police search of Martinez's home on Friday.
Well, what about Jordan Kelsey-Stewart? Had she purchased other weapons which ended up missing? That's what I'd want to know.
What's your opinion? Are the loose gun laws in Virginia contributing to the gun violence in cities like New York?
Because buying a firearm is so difficult in New York, people barred from owning pistols here often travel south to shop at gun shows where there are no required background checks for people buying secondhand weapons. Martinez didn't have a license to own a firearm.
So there we have it. Aside from the questions about this particular Mac 10 pistol, and whether its original owner was a frequent straw purchaser or associated with Martinez in some way, we have the question of continuing to allow people to buy second-hand guns without background checks. Things need to change and in spite of the successes the gun-rights folks have enjoyed lately, I think eventually enough people will become fed up with the laxity and demand the much-needed changes.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
" is that a pistol that can fire on fully automatic?"
ReplyDeleteNo. The gun recovered wasn't even a "MAC-10". It was a semi-automatic clone, no more dangerous than any other 9mm handgun.
"Do the restrictions against "machine guns" not apply to pistols?"
Anything that can fire automatically or be modified to fire automatically is a machine gun and is treated as such by law.
"Ms. Kelsey-Stewart reported the gun stolen from her car? Shouldn't that in itself be a crime?"
Only if you think victims should be criminals.
"we have the question of continuing to allow people to buy second-hand guns without background checks."
The original owner passed a background check. There was no second-hand purchasing involved.
There is no gun control law that would have prevented this? Why? Because criminals don't obey the law.
Have you read about the loop hole in the NYC gun law enforcement that is allegedly being used by Investment Firm Golden Boys to arm themselves against the threat of "class" violence...they feel they are gpoing to be singled out for their role in the current finanacial problems.
ReplyDeleteThis requires money, you pay off the law enforcement agency...e.g. sherrif's department or small town/county police force to issue an auxillary officer permit.
The permit is registered out of state, the NYC offices have no record of it and the holdeer is now entitled to the same perks that
any other law enforcement official has regarding fire arms.
cool, eh?
Your level of ignorance is astounding.
ReplyDeleteThe Mac-10 is a semi-auto weapon. Both you and the "journalist" have no clue.
The M-11 is the full-auto version.
Any 3rd grader with google could tell you that.
kaveman, You've said some kooky shit around here lately, some of which I've deleted as you well know. But this "3rd grader with google" remark is really a good one because when I did as you suggested and googled the Mac 10, guess what I found? It's fully automatic just like the Mac 11. I guess that's why AztecRed pointed out that the gun in question wasn't a Mac 10 at all, but a regular semi. So what does that make you? Certainly you're not "clueless" like me, no one would think you're ignorant about guns. I'm confused. Why do you say some of the things you do?
ReplyDeleteMaybe you want to go back to the other discussion and explain how you wanted to count your DGU fending off the bear more than once.
"The tracing of this Mac 10 was done almost immediately."
ReplyDeleteBut wait, Bloomberg has told us time and again that the Tiahart Amendment stops law enforcement from being able to trace guns. Wonder how this worked out so?
"Ms. Kelsey-Stewart reported the gun stolen from her car? Shouldn't that in itself be a crime? Isn't leaving a gun in a car like asking for it to be stolen?"
I know nothing of this Ms. Stewart but as to the question in general, the gun control freaks have made the laws so that sometimes one would have no choice but to leave a gun in a car. Enumerated criminal protection zones such as post offices or Universities make it a crime to carry inside so you must, by law, leave your gun in your car.
FWM, Now you're being a little loose with the facts when you say, "one would have no choice but to leave a gun in a car."
ReplyDeleteThe fact is if one is going to the university or post office, one would have the choice to leave the gun at home locked in the gun safe, wouldn't one?
It's not a machine pistol, it's a semi-auto M11, which looks like a fully automatic M11 but is not. I had a carbine version of this gun, and it was a piece of shit.
ReplyDeleteThe woman in question is under investigation because I don't think the authorities believe her story. Reporting a gun stolen is not uncommon for people who were straw men (straw woman?) in a gun trafficking scheme.
It would certainly be a rather unusual to keep in your vehicle.
As for leaving a gun in a car, there's a good way to avoid that from happening: repeal laws that restrict where people can carry. In Pennsylvania, I never leave a gun in a car, because there's few restrictions on where I can carry. In Virginia, I've done it, because restaurants are off limits. I have a choice of leaving the gun in a hotel room where it could be stolen, and leaving it in the car. Both bad choices.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, leaving it home is an option, but you have a constitutional right to carry a gun in some manner, as the Supreme Court strongly suggested in Heller, so you have to deal with it. Given that, the best place for a gun to be is on the person who owns it, so the law should reflect that preference. It does in Pennsylvania. In many states, it does not.
AP: "Because buying a firearm is so difficult in New York, people barred from owning pistols here often travel south to shop at gun shows where there are no required background checks for people buying secondhand weapons. Martinez didn't have a license to own a firearm."
ReplyDeleteMikeb: "So there we have it. Aside from the questions about this particular Mac 10 pistol, and whether its original owner was a frequent straw purchaser or associated with Martinez in some way, we have the question of continuing to allow people to buy second-hand guns without background checks."
As we know, "people barred from owning pistols here often travel south to shop at gun shows" is a controversial and disputed matter as to how "often," yet the AP reports it as undisputed fact, with no supporting evidence -- not even an example. In fact, it sounds exactly like it came from a a MAIG propaganda sheet. I find that likely, and wish that the AP had credited their source (although that would take away from the propaganda value of the AP story itself).
Even more interesting is that the facts so far (buyer passed a background check but gun was stolen) are of minimal use as gun control propaganda. That just won't do! So what to do about it? Add an entirely irrelevant and unsupported line about gun shows! Reread the article, and note just how irrelevant the gun show line is and just now neatly it adds gun control impetus to a story that otherwise lacks it.
"So there we have it"? The Brits have a saying for this AP maneuver: "Too clever by half."
This all could change with new facts, but THAT would be time to make gun control hay with this story if new facts support it -- not now. Also, I am not entirely opposed to background checks at gun shows, but I will still pick apart bogus gun control propganda attempts.
" is that a pistol that can fire on fully automatic?"
ReplyDeleteor are you just happy to see me?
The reporting in this story is atrocious in media claiming to be accurate. At first glance the idea of the criminal using a true $4000 full auto Mac 10 is unlikely, and certainly deserves more investigation before reporting as fact.
ReplyDeleteAnd traditional media wonders why it is in trouble.
I was running to Wal-Mart at 6:30 p.m. yesterday--I of course was armed as I usually am when I go out, especially alone at night. I decided to stop and check my P.O. box but had to leave the gun in the car for 3 minutes to do so--it is the law.
ReplyDeleteLast week I was travelling out of town in which I always carry. I needed to find something to eat. I stopped at a Chipolte for some quick take-out but since they sell about three beers a year and I was in a state where they have a silly law against carrying anywhere that sells alcohol, I had to leave my gun in the car to obey the law. Driving 180 miles back to my gun safe and returning would have been counter productive.
That is just two examples of the law forcing me to leave my gun in the car within the last week. Repealing such silly requirements would allow the gun to remain at my side, step in to retrieve my food or mail and step back out with no one the wiser and everyone safer--less gun handling and less chance of a thief having access.
If I were to gamble, I would say that the lady in Virginia was engaged in a straw purchase. But then, really she could have just wanted to get a steak at an Applebee's too and was forced by law to leave it in the car.
FWM, Those are good examples, I admit.
ReplyDeleteHow do you guys know what the gun was? I asked AztecRed this on his blog. I agree it's unlikely that a street guy like Martinez had an expensive piece, but you all sound so sure. There was a picture of it on the ground. Could you recognize it from that?
"I asked AztecRed this on his blog."
ReplyDeleteMy answer:
Pictures of the gun have been released and you can faintly make out the "Masterpiece Arms" stamping on the side, a company that makes semi-automatic clones of what most people call "MAC-10s".
http://i50.tinypic.com/jt9ymd.jpg
Yeah, and isn't it funny the reports today that the gun jammed because he was holding it sideways like they show in videos and movies? Is that the reason they jam? Or is it because they're cheap pieces of junk? Either way the scene of this wannabe gangsta shooting at the cops like that is pretty funny, except for the fact that he ended up dead as a result.
ReplyDeleteI don't have any experience with the Masterpiece Arms brand, but my experience with these firearms in general says they are very sensitive to ammunition, and aren't all that reliable.
ReplyDeleteEven in its original open bolt configuration, they have sensitivity to ammo, but in the closed bolt configuration, they just don't seem to work as reliably. ATF won't allow semi-auto open bolt guns to be manufactured because they are easy to convert to full-auto.
I can't speak for whether holding it sideways increases the chance for a stovepipe, because only an idiot would shoot a gun that way.
Shooting like that CAN cause jams, however a MAC 10 clone is likely to jam not because of how one holds it, but because it's a cheap POS.
ReplyDeleteI've intentionally shot my carry piece while holding it sideways to see if it would jam. It did not, but then again Sigs are not cheap pieces of crap.
Mike W. said, "I've intentionally shot my carry piece while holding it sideways to see if it would jam."
ReplyDeleteC'mon Mike, fess up, man. You didn't do it to test its jamming possibilities, you did it pretending to be a bas-ass gangsta. You can tell us.
Why Do Rappers Hold Their Guns Sideways?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.slate.com/id/2238560/