The Statesman
An Austin police officer who fatally shot a man after a short pursuit last week told internal affairs investigators during a lengthy interrogation Thursday that he unintentionally fired his gun, the American-Statesman has learned.
Detective Charles Kleinert told investigators that he had drawn his weapon as part of his effort to subdue Larry Eugene Jackson Jr. and that during a struggle between the two, Kleinert lost his balance, fell over and that a single round accidentally went off, several sources confirmed. Jackson, 32, was shot once in the back of the neck.
They love to conclude that "it was an accident," or that "there was no foul play." This is the way they minimize the human error part of the incident. This is the way they excuse the negligent actions of the shooter.
No accidental shooting happens without the violation of at least two of the 4 Rules of Gun Safety. It's impossible.
Gun owners, and yes even cops, should be held responsible for their negligent actions.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Yes, we should fire the cop and take away all of his gun rights forever, all because he accidentally fired his gun when a suspect, resisting arrest, knocked him on the ground. It's totally inexcusable that the man didn't have perfect reflexes to avoid firing the gun in this circumstance!
ReplyDeleteYou're god damned right, it's inexcusable to have one's finger on the trigger before the target is acquired and one is ready to shoot.
DeleteWhy ever would you excuse such sloppy gun handling? Do you want to be forgiven when you do it?
Mikeb, you repeatedly show yourself to be totally ignorant regarding how physical confrontations go, but you continue expressing your unexpert opinions about them.
DeleteMike,
DeleteIf you get hit and knocked to the ground, it's not necessarily a matter of sloppiness. You could have your finger perfectly indexed along the trigger guard and the impact and effort to hang onto the gun could cause you to accidentally slip it into the trigger guard and fire the gun. There's also the possibility, however slight that it may be, that the gun could fire from the impact in any of several ways. After the fall, it may well be impossible to tell whether you had your finger on the trigger before hand, it slipped onto the trigger, or the gun was jarred and went off without you hitting the trigger.
So don't give me a bunch of bullshit about trigger discipline. If we were talking about a case where trigger discipline was at issue, I'd be castigating the guy right along with you. An accidental discharge when you get knocked onto the ground, with no indication of poor trigger discipline, is a very different animal.
But then, you know that. You just want to conflate the issues so that you can accuse me of self serving rule making and of being sloppy in my own gun handling.
Whatever happened to making rational arguments instead of ad hominems? Too hard? Not enough "fun"?
So, you figure the guy had perfect trigger discipline, index finger along the barrel and he was struck in just the right way as to cause an involuntary flexing of the index finger simultaneously with a squeezing of the trigger.
DeleteIs there no length to which you will not go to excuse the fuck-ups of fellow gun owners?
What's wrong with simple accountability? If you fire a gun and shoot someone, it was either intentional or the result of negligence. There is no other possibility, we can say this because those mechanical failures we've talked about are so exceedingly rare that we can say NO OTHER POSSIBILITY.
"An involuntary flexing of the index finger simultaneously with a squeezing of the trigger"
DeleteUmm, those two items that you're trying to make sound unlikely to happen at the same time are the same thing.
As for the rest of your question--I'm not saying he had perfect trigger discipline, I'm saying that he could have, and that unless there's very clear video, there's know way to know.
The rest of your comment is barely worthy of answering. No length to which I won't go? As I said in the last comment, if this were a straight up trigger discipline case--cop holding someone at gunpoint and pulled the trigger when he grabbed at them like in one old case, I'd be right there with you. This case, with the fall is a bit different.
What's wrong with accountability? Nothing. But it's wrong to hold someone accountable for an accident caused by the criminal that shoved them down.
As for your analysis, you've admitted to various other possibilities in the past, but then promptly forgotten about them, so it isn't even worth my time to give new examples. Hell, your comment even notes mechanical failures which, yes, are rare, but are more likely to be an issue in a case with an impact like this--and yet, you say that their rarity makes them so unlikely that even if they DO happen, the gun owner should be held responsible for them.
Wonderful precedent there, boss. Glad you ain't king of the world.
Mikeb, let's speculate here. You love doing that. What if the officer ordered the suspect to stop. The officer, making a valid arrest, had drawn his gun. An altercation ensues, during which time the officer does have a good reason for putting his finger on the trigger. Police have occasion to do that at times when ordinary citizens do not.
DeleteI agree that during a sruggle, things go wrong. If the Officer was in fear for his life and the Suspect was refusing to follow instructions from a Law Enforcement Officer then anything that happens after is on the suspect. During a physical struggle , anything can happen to include the suspect grabbing for the weapon. Had the suspect stopped and allowed the Officer to place him into custody without incident, he would be alive today and probably out on bail.
ReplyDeleteThe "investigation" said it was an accident. I say there's no such thing. There's only negligence. To call something an accident is to shirk the responsibility and accountability all gun owners should have for their actions.
DeleteWhat you're saying is a beautiful example of blaming the victim.
"What you're saying is a beautiful example of blaming the victim."
DeleteLook in a mirror.
I'm going to have to reserve judgement until after the investigation. Fights like that are never pretty, and if it appeared that the suspect was going for his gun, then it becomes a good shoot.
ReplyDeleteIF, IF, IF
ReplyDeleteTo bad you lovers of making jokes about the death of a 6 year old have nothing more than IF's.