Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation. When police are called to a “man with a gun” call they typically are responding to a situation about which they have few details other than that one or more people are present at a location and are armed. Officers may have no idea that these people are simply “exercising their rights.” Consequently, the law enforcement response is one of “hypervigilant urgency” in order to protect the public from an armed threat. Should the gun carrying person fail to comply with a law enforcement instruction or move in a way that could be construed as threatening, the police are forced to respond in kind for their own protection. It’s well and good in hindsight to say the gun carrier was simply “exercising their rights” but the result could be deadly. Simply put, it is not recommended to openly carry firearmsSan Mateo County Sheriff’s Office, “Unloaded Open Carry,” Jan. 14, 2010, available at http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/San-Mateo-County-Sheriffs-Office_Unloaded-Open-Carry.pdf
See also:
smartgunlaws.org/open-carrying-policy-summary/
So it would be a really bad idea to call the cops on every open carrier you see (also known as "swatting"), as some people threaten to do (unless you secretly like gun violence).
ReplyDeleteBy the way, have you seen this decision:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/2014/08/california-gun-waiting-period-laws-ruled-unconstitutional/
Finally a gun ruling we can both agree on, right Mike?
Do you refuse to admit that open carry does at times cause confusion and problems for law enforcement?
DeleteYes. I posted that one today and I agree. I've said so many times. In fact I was wondering if Judge Ishii had been reading my blog.
Did you not read what I said? Yes, there is the potential for confusion, especially if a 911 caller sets it up by maliciously calling the cops on someone peacefully open carrying.
Delete"Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation. When police are called to a “man with a gun” call they typically are responding to a situation about which they have few details other than that one or more people are present at a location and are armed. "
ReplyDeleteLaci, this isn't necessarily so. When someone calls in a man with a gun call, the 911 operator then makes use of their training and knowledge of the laws in their jurisdiction to ask tough questions like, "what is the person with the gun doing?" They then inform the officers responding and the officers arriving at the scene with the little knowledge that you suggest.
Minnesota's carry permit law doesn't require the permit holder to conceal, si its the equivalent of open carry. And you don't really hear about permit holders getting proned out in the road because it really doesn't happen much. The officer will normally make what amounts to a traffic stop, check the person's permit and both will go about their business.
There was a notable violent overreaction by police up here a couple of years ago. My guess it is meandering along somewhere in lawsuit land,
"A Minneapolis man says he was beaten by police as he left a downtown nightclub.
Zachary King says he was walking to his car when police noticed his gun in his waist band. He claims he told police he had a permit to carry, but they still attacked him.
King suffered a concussion after five officers beat him on Father’s Day night. King says video of the assault was taken by a bystander. He says it all started when police noticed a bulge near his waist band.
“I have my conceal and carry, and it’s my gun. And soon as I said that he grabbed me by my neck, slammed me against the wall, snatched my gun out the holster, started waving it in the air saying ‘gun, gun, gun,'” said King."
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/06/23/mpls-man-police-beat-me-for-gun-despite-my-permit/
So, in spite of their attempts to ask the right questions, carrying a gun can sometimes make it difficult for police to differentiate between the good guys and the bad guys.
DeleteNo doubt in some cases that can happen. But Mike, it's the CRIMINAL that conceals his intentions. The criminal doesn't want to draw attention to himself until he is ready to act. A person who is peaceably open carrying would be not a criminal by any reasonably thinking person observing him or her.
DeleteSometimes open carry demonstrators cannot be confused with anything else. But not always. Open carry is wrong because the practice can often be confused with people who have bad intentions.
DeleteOpen carry is insane. It will cause nothing but confusion and trouble. Are the cops going to stop every person who is openly carrying a gun, especially if open carry is legal? Bad guns will open carry figuring they won't be stopped.
ReplyDelete"Are the cops going to stop every person who is openly carrying a gun, especially if open carry is legal? Bad guns will open carry figuring they won't be stopped. "
DeleteYou mean the police will have to use probable cause or worse wait for laws to be broken? Scandalous!
What's scandalous is that criminals will be walking the streets with guns uncontested because of course a gun carrying criminal is just another law abiding citizen. Explain how you define the difference between the good guys and the bad guns? Wait til someone is dead? .
DeleteI'm sure there are countries out there where detention without proper cause is quite acceptable. North Korea comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteIt's the job of police to determine the intentions of a suspicious person. You gun loons just don't accept that a person carrying a weapon in public is a suspicious person to the majority of the people and I hope the people keep calling 911 whenever they see a person open carrying a gun in public.
Delete"You gun loons just don't accept that a person carrying a weapon in public is a suspicious person to the majority of the people and I hope the people keep calling 911 whenever they see a person open carrying a gun in public."
DeleteAll I can say to that is it doesn't happen very often here. It has never happened to me and it doesn't show up very often on a local forum I frequent which deals with permitted carry in Minnesota. The few instances tend to be calm affairs with all concerned doing their part to make it work.
I said nothing about detention and your comparison to N. Korea is ridiculous. It's not an irrational fear to question the motives of someone open carrying a gun in public and it's not the job of an average citizen to guess if that person has good, or bad motives. If you want open carry then don't be insulted if police stop and question you, or ask to see your permit.
DeleteAs I said, while I don't open carry in the sense that I purposely abstain from something to cover my pistol, I also don't fret greatly if it does show for whatever reason. I know people who do open carry and they don't get stopped. In Minnesota its perfectly acceptable for an officer to ask to see your permit. Its part of the law.
DeleteMinnesota has over 175,000 permit holders and climbing. And those permit holders are much more law abiding than the general populace.
http://madfi.org/permitcount.asp
Not talking about YOU. You really go out of your way to be a deceptive azzhole.
Delete