Tuesday, July 12, 2011

Wonder where these guys got their guns? It is reasonable to assume it wasn't legally.

These are the people we need to prevent obtaining and keeping firearms; these are the people gun regulation is intended to restrict.

Unlucky Philadelphia, to have this problem; all the more so in the face of fewer resources available to most cities.

From the AP, by way of MSNBC News:

Motorcycle gang members face federal murder, drug charges

Wheels of Soul members accused of planning extortion, distributing drugs, acts of violence

Eighteen members of a motorcycle gang known as Wheels of Soul face a federal indictment on charges ranging from racketeering to kidnapping to murder, including for fatal shootings in three states.
The indictment handed up June 9 was unsealed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in St. Louis. It wasn't immediately clear if any of the defendants had attorneys.
The defendants are from seven states: Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Missouri, Colorado, Wisconsin and Kentucky.
The indictment alleges that Wheels of Soul is governed by the "Mother Chapter" in Philadelphia, with regional chapters around the country. Federal agents raided two Wheels of Soul clubhouses in Philadelphia on Tuesday.
Members wear a black vest adorned with patches on the back and commonly refer to the gang as "the Nation."
The indictment alleges that a select few gang members achieved "1%er," or "Diamond" status for particularly violent activity. It accuses gang members of planning extortion against smaller gangs; distributing drugs, especially crack cocaine; plotting and carrying out several acts of violence including kidnapping, robbery and murder.
It also accuses gang members of several shootings, including three that were fatal: In St. Louis in 2009; in Chicago in January; and in Marion, Ohio, in March.
Some of the violence cited in the indictment was breathtaking. One member allegedly stabbed another person in the head during a fight at a Chicago motorcycle club, then shot another in the stomach.
In January, six of the accused went to an East St. Louis, Ill., nightclub intending to kill members of the rival Outkast OMG gang, according to the indictment. The plan was foiled because several police officers were seen near the club.

12 comments:

  1. "These are the people we need to prevent obtaining and keeping firearms; these are the people gun regulation is intended to restrict."

    And these are the guys that don't obey laws and get their guns anyway in spite of your restrictions that only affect the law abiding.

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  2. FWM, we can make it more difficult to obtain firearms.

    No laws don't only affect the law abiding.

    Access to illegal firearms shouldn't be as free as it is. Among other things, we should require the NCIS database to be complete and accurate - it isn't, so the wrong people who are prohibited from doing so still legally buy guns.

    We should dramatically increase the penalty for straw buyers.

    And we should require far more secure storage as a condition of gun ownership, and mandatory reporting if one goes missing or is stolen.

    I still favor a bond to be posted by firearm owners, to facilitate that.

    Criminals cannot get what is not too readily available to them, at least not in the current quantity.

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  3. Dog gone: “Criminals cannot get what is not too readily available to them, at least not in the current quantity.”

    Yeah, it is not like these guys had crack cocaine or something.

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  4. "No laws don't only affect the law abiding."

    Actually, they do Criminals, by definition do not obey the law. You have shown that time and again with all of those posts of gun crime in Minneapolis. Murder is against the law, yet criminals commit murder. Robbery is against the law yet criminals commit robbery. Discharging a firearm in a crowded city is illegal yet it happens everyday.

    "Access to illegal firearms shouldn't be as free as it is."

    If they are illegal firearms then they are already against the law to possess.

    "Among other things, we should require the NCIS database to be complete and accurate - it isn't, so the wrong people who are prohibited from doing so still legally buy guns."

    I believe we have laws for this. Why do you not lobby for their enforcement?

    "And we should require far more secure storage as a condition of gun ownership, and mandatory reporting if one goes missing or is stolen."

    So how again will a law aimed at penalizing the otherwise law abiding help? If I report my stolen gun three days sooner, will that help the police catch the burglar? I think not. Response time for a burglary in my area is measured in days, not minutes or even hours.

    And as far as lost and stolen laws, you do realize that you can only charge a non prohibited person with those don't you? Criminals and prohibited persons are protected from prosecution of those laws as well as for violating gun registration laws under the 5th amendment.

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  5. FWM ignores the fact "law-abiding" citizen doesn't really mean law-abiding. It means non-felonious. Sometimes.

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  6. "FWM ignores the fact "law-abiding" citizen doesn't really mean law-abiding. It means non-felonious. Sometimes."

    Jade is right, I guess the "law-abiding" could have a speeding ticket or other misdemeanors. Criminals.

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  7. No, FWM, I'm talking about folks who have misdemeanor records for violence. Also, I'm talking about the mentally ill.

    I'll give you a f'r'instance; there's a minor gunloon blogger who parrots the NRA line and owns all kind of firearms. Yet, he has a record that includes at least two mismeanor counts of assault and two counts of disorderly conduct.

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  8. FWM, we can make it more difficult to obtain firearms.

    No laws don't only affect the law abiding.


    The law didn't seem to bother the BATFE while they were violating the Arms control act.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/22/2778.html

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  9. Strawbuying is a crimeJuly 13, 2011 at 11:22 PM

    dog gone said...

    We should dramatically increase the penalty for straw buyers.


    So 10 years in the federal pen is not penalty enough?

    Maybe we should prosecute straw-buyers with the laws already in place?

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  10. Not when so many are not prosecuted and not put behind bars.

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  11. Laws do not only affect the law abiding; one of the purposes to having laws is that they can be a deterrent, with sufficient USE of them in investigation, arrests, and prosecution, to be a deterrent to those who are contemplating criminal activity.

    An analogy - would you be more or less likely to reduce your rate of speed behind the wheel, if driving at dangerous speeds were not an offense? Given the number of otherwise law abiding citizens I see traveling over the speed limit on our highways even with penalties and the speed limit, and more so where the enforcement is light and the penalties are small or not often enforced, I'd say say it is pretty likely that speed limits may not completely eliminate people driving at dangerous speeds, but it does reduce them and reduce the speeds to more manageable limits.

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  12. Among the so-called "law-abiding" gun owners we have murders who have not yet been caught. Among the technically non-criminal we have all kinds of characters.

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